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oneatatime
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Pressure excursion!
Jun 5th, 2022 at 4:02pm
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This was my first thought (and first experience in 60 years of reloading) as after firing my first ever shot in my new to me 7x65R Heeren (and thinking that it was a potent reaction to expect from 10 grains of Unique behind a 150 grain Loverin cast bullet) I opened the action quite normally and spied the shiny case head and mirror flattened primer smoked around it and the extraction stopped before it even got started. Wow! I tapped the brass out with a rod and at that point the primer just fell out. I noted that the headstamp on the new Norma case was oddly faint compared to when it had entered the chamber. My first assumption was that with so little powder in the long and fairly large case that I had failed to settle the powder against the primer as I had chambered the round and that it had been strung out along the length of the case and the primer had somehow done a full immediate ignition or something. I trusted my loading routine as I had only the Unique powder out and I had, as always, done a flashlight inspection of the powder level in the 15 loaded cases before I started seating bullets. The load was 10 grains of Unique and I had checked my recorded Harrells setting by dumping 3 loads onto my scale giving a reading of 30 grains which was then dumped back into the top of the Harrells bottle before I started dumping straight from the Harrells into the cases in the loading block. All the bullets were seated for the cases I had just put the powder into and the loaded rounds placed in the ammo box before I emptied the powder out of the Harrells bottle back into the Unique bottle. The Harrels bottle and the Harrells itself were definitely empty before I loaded the next powder I was trying, SR 4756. So, I wasn't worried as I carefully made sure the powder was at the back before I loaded the next round. That fired as would be expected and extracted (actually more like ejected, the extractor really works well) normally. This continued for a few more shots and then I realized that my jury rigged scope mounting had loosened so before I closed the action on the case I had chambered I tightened up the scope mounts. This time as it fired I realized that I had a repeat. Sure enough a little smoke around the primer and case had to be rodded out. Not like the first one though. So had the time spent working on the scope mounts laid the powder out and invitied another excursion or? That was enough for the day. To be continued.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Pressure excursion!
Reply #1 - Jun 5th, 2022 at 4:34pm
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Arriving home I scratched my head and pondered what could have happened. As the Norma brass is quite consistent in weight (+ or - .5 grains) and the bullet weights were also consistent (give or take a half grain or so including the lube) I thought I would weigh the loaded rounds to see if that showed any unexpected variance and yes it did. I pulled a bullet from one of the normal cases and weighed the powder - 10 grains. I pulled the bullet from the odd one and weighed the powder - 22 grains - WTF! 20 maybe if it was doubled but 22?  Some one have a QuickLoad and want to estimate the pressure that would have caused? And just how did that happen? I went back through everything in my mind and couldn't come up with an answer. If I had managed to do a double dump, why didn't I see it in the flashlight inspection? OK, the case is long and large and maybe 10 more grains doesn't show up as a great difference. In the future all loads that won't overflow the case with a double dump get checked on the scale even if they pass the visual inspection. I wouldn't trust a dip stick to catch everything in every possible load in every possible cartridge. 
The good news is that neither I nor the rifle was harmed. I measured that first case compared to a new case with some interesting figures. The rim diameter went in at .520 and came out at .533 (this accounts for the headstamp becoming faint as it was ironed flat - the breech block face is very smooth and the firing pin and its hole are small and well fitted giving the mirrored primer). The head diameter immediately in front of the rim went from .465 to .476. The action is now verified the hard way as being quite strong. I do not recommend trying this proof at home (or on the range)! I really would like to have an idea of the pressure that was involved. Those 2 fired cases, as expected, have been retired.
  
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Re: Pressure excursion!
Reply #2 - Jun 5th, 2022 at 6:18pm
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Question: were any of the cases found to be loaded under the 10 grain amount?
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Pressure excursion!
Reply #3 - Jun 5th, 2022 at 6:39pm
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No, all within + or - .1 grain. It had to have been me and double dumps that I couldn't spot in the flashlight test (but 3 times, and what about the other 2 grains?) but I was doing nothing but loading and didn't even have my classical music radio station on.
« Last Edit: Jun 5th, 2022 at 6:52pm by oneatatime »  
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Re: Pressure excursion!
Reply #4 - Jun 5th, 2022 at 8:45pm
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After years of reading of unexplained incidents similar to yours my steadfast loading method is to drop the powder into the scale’s pan and once the weight is verified I then funnel the powder in the case, a visually identified empty case, and seat the bullet immediately thereafter before attempting another load. Have yet to overcharge a reduced load or for that matter undercharge a load.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Pressure excursion!
Reply #5 - Jun 5th, 2022 at 8:53pm
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Yes. That would be a good system. After 60 plus years of reloading I had yet to do it until this time;-)
  
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Re: Pressure excursion!
Reply #6 - Jun 5th, 2022 at 9:09pm
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Amen to experience but there comes a time were one is not as attentive as one used to be and for me that is the scary part. I catch myself all the time wondering if I charged the round correctly and pulling the round down to look for an error. So far no failures but the day is coming for those failures and that’s the part of life I’m not looking forward to, Lord keep us safe!
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Pressure excursion!
Reply #7 - Jun 6th, 2022 at 12:26am
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Amen.
  
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westerner
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Re: Pressure excursion!
Reply #8 - Jun 6th, 2022 at 1:12pm
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Only time I ever got an overcharged case was when I loaded cases the day before a match. I know of another shooter who wrecked her rifle with pre-charged cases. 
Be careful!
  

A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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Re: Pressure excursion!
Reply #9 - Jun 6th, 2022 at 2:10pm
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Even though it was not an exact double charge, it sure seems like a double charge. My prepped and primed cases sit mouth down in the loading block, and the bullet gets seated right after the powder drop. 

I also like to do a few test drops of powder, but I don't return it back to the hopper right away. That first drop in a case might be a little heavy if the powder settles differently with vibration on the hopper from dumping the powder back in? Nothing more than my thoughts, have fun at the range.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Pressure excursion!
Reply #10 - Jun 6th, 2022 at 5:19pm
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My routine is to always use at least half a hopper's worth of powder even if I'm only going to load 10 rounds. After putting the powder in I give the hopper a minute of rat-a-ma-tazz slapping with my palms front to back and side to side until the powder is well settled. Then I dump 15 loads in a funnel and dump that back in the hopper (makes very little difference going into a half full hopper.) Then I dump 3 loads in a scale pan and check the weight. That goes back in the hopper and I'm ready to start loading.
  
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Re: Pressure excursion!
Reply #11 - Jun 6th, 2022 at 6:32pm
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I use a 'dip stick' on rifle cases loaded with our small amounts of powder. I make a mark on a new pencil and lower it into each case sitting in a loading block. Instantly detects any that have a double, or for that matter no powder at all.
  
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Re: Pressure excursion!
Reply #12 - Jun 13th, 2022 at 2:57pm
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I keep a funnel in the powder jug. Anything not going in a case goes back there. The hopper on the measure stays sealed.

I generally check weigh most charges. And I do catch bridging in the drop tube now and then. The measure gets 'knocked' to dump it, and cycled a couple more times before going back to the pan.

Almost all modern stuff, 223 with N-140 the largest volume. Hundreds of rds at a time. The short range stuff gets eyeballed at the case mouth as good enough. Same routine if it's not all there, just no scale in the loop. Other than a check every 15-20 rds.
  
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