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ISS
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Scale choices...
May 25th, 2022 at 3:22am
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What type of scales you all use to weigh out powder charges?

I retired my old balance beam scales a couple years ago, and went to an electronic scale.  That gets tedious in a hurry.  I did it for Benchrest jacketed bullet loads, since I only had to do 25-35 rounds.  I was weighing bullets anyway, so it was not too much like work.

I need 50 rounds each for two matches at Raton, and I am way too old to weigh that many.

The Hornady Pro model looks pretty good on paper.  Just wondering if it is worth the $$$.

thanks guys,

Rich

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GunBum
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Re: Scale choices...
Reply #1 - May 25th, 2022 at 7:57am
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I decided that I hate all of the balances sold for reloading.  I still use and love my old balance beam style reloading scale, but all of the electronic ones suck.  I play a Chemist at work during the day, and have had a lot of exposure to some very nice electronic balances over the years.  I use a Metler-Toledo analytical balance (accurate to 0.00005g or 0.0008 grains) for weighing bullets.  It cost the company about $3k and was worth every penny.  The boss chuckles when he sees me sorting bullets.  Grin

Here’s the thing about sensitive electronic balances.
1) They don’t like to move.  Ever.   
2) Air currents are bad for accuracy and precision 
3) They don’t like vibrations
4) They don’t like to be turned off
5) The need to sit level
6) They need periodic recalibration
7) You get what you pay for

In the lab, all of the analytical balances sit on big marble or granite tables.  The tables are heavy, so they dampen vibrations.  The tables have an enclosure around the balance to help with air currents, and they sit in a part of the room where the HVAC doesn’t blow directly on them.  They get daily calibration checks and quarterly factory service calls.  The service calls are a bit excessive for home use, but the daily checks are not.

Very few reloaders are willing to spend the $500 and up for a decent balance.  They expect that $100 one to perform, or worse, they expect the $24.95 one to perform.  They also don’t want to dedicate a table with a cheap granite surface plate and an enclosure to solve most of the common issues.  Worst of all, they get cheap with electricity and turn off the electronics after using it.

At home I used to have a 30 year old surplus Metler-Toledo that measures to 0.001g (0.015 grains).  I had to do math to convert to grains for reloading.  Unfortunately it finally gave up the ghost while moving to Missouri.  It will get replaced with another surplus bench top balance when I find one.

Bottom line on advice.  A scientific balance is better than a reloading balance.  You get what you pay for, so get ready to pay.  You can solve a lot of the common “problems” by putting the balance in the right place, and treating it right.  The drawback is that you aren’t likely to find the same quality if it reads in grains or ounces.
  
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KFW
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Re: Scale choices...
Reply #2 - May 25th, 2022 at 9:10am
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3 yrs. into my RCBS Chargemaster, it still works fine and I use it constantly for black pwdr.  I do use a Lyman 55 large hopper for the bulk dump, then finish off the last few grains on the RCBS. Then down the drop tube.  Pretty quick process.
kw
  
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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: Scale choices...
Reply #3 - May 25th, 2022 at 9:40am
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An analytical balance is definitely “better” than the run-of-the-mill reloading balance in terms of precision (and accuracy, if the calibration is kept up to date).  But if the OP is disinclined to weigh out 100 powder charges to 0.1 gr on a reloading balance, he is not going to be happy trying to weigh them out to 0.0008 gr on an analytical balance, electronic or otherwise.  It takes a fair amount of practice and technique to even approach the speed at which one can weigh on a conventional beam balance, and whether this four-decimal precision is going to make the difference between first and second place on a target is arguable, given all the other factors involved.

I have an old Dillon electronic scale that is fine for checking powder measure settings and weighing bullets, but no good for “trickling up” the last 0.1 gr.  It will sit on a reading and then jump 0.3 gr.  Fine for getting close with black powder charges, which I “semi-weigh” to +/- 0.5 gr.

The electronic scale on my RCBS Chargemaster is newer, and will dispense and “trickle up” accurately to +/- 0.1 gr of smokeless.  It does not save me any time over a beam balance and trickling from a scoop, just the labor of doing so.  Everything stops until I hear that annoying “Beeep!” summoning me to pour the charge into a case and start the next charge going.

If you want speed, set your powder measure and be confident in your technique.  If you want accuracy, you’ll have to put in the time and effort, whether analog or digital instrumentation is being used.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Scale choices...
Reply #4 - May 25th, 2022 at 11:24am
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I used to weigh out all my loads but decided that with a good, accurate and repeatable measure (and with the testing that followed) it was not necessary. I use a Harrels Schuetzen for all powders except 4759 where I use an RCBS with small chamber and micrometer.
  
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burntwater
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Re: Scale choices...
Reply #5 - May 25th, 2022 at 12:04pm
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My wife retired as a chemist and metallographer in a couple of Aerospace labs and like GunBum says you generally can’t afford precision lab grade balances but if you follow lab auctions they come up all the time and can be snapped up for short money frequently. Names like Mettler, Denver Intruments and Ohaus are worth looking for if you need that kind of precision. Most are domed since even a mouse fart at fifty feet will register. Many of the older electronic scales reportedly had problems if plugged into a circuit with old fluorescent lights but those old T type fixtures aren’t as common these days. 

I have two electronic balances both of which drift and must be re-calibrated regularly. I don’t trust them so I load with my old Ohaus-RCBS model 304 and with a good throw, and practiced handle techniques for stick, ball or spherical I only check every five or more loads on the scale depending on the powder.

Rick
  
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GunBum
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Re: Scale choices...
Reply #6 - May 25th, 2022 at 2:30pm
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One thing to be cognizant of when using an electronic balance is the speed at which it updates the readout.  It’s why I don’t use an expensive electronic balance to measure powder while trickling, but have no problem using it to check the weight my powder measures are throwing.  This is the primary problem with automatic electronic powder measures.  They either run real slow and/or are super expensive (relatively).  My old Redding beam balance trickling up to charge is faster than my Lyman and RCBS automatic dispensers.  On top of that, it is more precise.

All that being said, I agree with oneatatime and throw 99% of my powder charges with a powder measure.  The balance is just there to set the measure.
  
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boats
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Re: Scale choices...
Reply #7 - May 25th, 2022 at 5:48pm
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Agree with the other guys, I use my beam balance first to confirm measure settings, then to confirm my run of thrown charges are constant. Typically 10 throws hitting the mark exactly. Then to throwing all, check weighing anything that did not feel “right” Does not take long to identify inconsistent handle operation &  correct technique.

Have no confidence in ultra sensitive consumer grade Chinese electronic scales. Lyman Beam Balance confirmed with set of check weights, charges thrown in Harrell’s or if stick powder Belding  & Mull my choice. 

Fast and reliable. Thought about one of the more expensive Oahus beam balances but check weights don’t lie & have never caught the Lyman out.

Boats
  
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burntwater
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Re: Scale choices...
Reply #8 - May 25th, 2022 at 6:45pm
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When I was a ‘anything gun’ crazy kid I hung around two old time neighborhood reloaders, one was Frank Snow, the  founder of Sierra Bullets. I watched them, kept my mouth shut and swept up spent primers etc. before I left. But I watched these guys using the powder throws and they always had little routines with each type of powder. When I throw medium and long stick powders like 4831 or 4759 in my Redding I do two light taps with the handle then dump. There is no scientific explanation for this but it works for me. I guess my advice is that consistent dumps take more than just pulling the handle. 

Rick
  
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Piltdownman
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Re: Scale choices...
Reply #9 - May 25th, 2022 at 7:32pm
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Ohaus 304 Dial-a-Grain.
  

If I hear another  millenial use the term "node" or "optimal " at the range I'll scream!!!
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wesg
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Re: Scale choices...
Reply #10 - May 25th, 2022 at 10:48pm
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Ohaus Navigator, .05 grain resolution. Which basically means it's .1 grain at best. Good enough. But it's an old fashioned strain gauge which nobody (who cares) uses anymore.

This after an RCBS green plastic something-or-other that had to be re-zeroed for every charge.

All need power 24/7.

And then are those who have to have .1 grain, and cut powder granules with an X-Acto knife to get to zero. If it makes you feel better ... and chrono data is easy to fudge for those of us that aren't statisticians ...
  
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