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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Patina or just filthy? (Read 7172 times)
cellargun
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Re: Patina or just filthy?
Reply #15 - Apr 7th, 2022 at 8:13am
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This one is an old, odd, original lever gun cartridge of 40-60 WCF. 
Looks like a 32-20 on steroids, has that same type shoulder you can feel but barely see. It may well receive a liner later, but I want to shoot it as is first. I’ve installed a couple dozen liners over the years, so that won’t be an issue. 
I would have preferred to leave the barrel original length, but the offset hole at the muzzle would have made shooting a spray and pray proposition at best, and possibly dangerous.
Nothing personal, but I’d rather not get into cost/price on a public forum. It was Sunday, and the seller was ready to make deal, cut his asking price nearly 50%. I’m into it low enough that even with a  $175 liner, I’ll still be happy.  jimmy wrote on Apr 6th, 2022 at 2:42pm:
What caliber and how much $ ?  I'm just curious. I'm always looking. Just missed a 40-82 last fall for $800 or so. It needed relined. 

I would have left the barrel length original. 

Sounds like dirt and crud that needs to be cleaned off.

  
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cellargun
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Re: Patina or just filthy?
Reply #16 - Apr 7th, 2022 at 8:21am
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This was definitely on the surface, and you didn’t need anything but your eyes to know it was there. Fingertips, fingernails revealed how thick it was in places. The right side of the barrel was pebbly like spray in truck bed liner.
MrTipUp wrote on Apr 6th, 2022 at 2:13pm:
This is just my viewpoint as an experienced professional: Real "patina" is the result of a chemical reaction, usually oxidation; it's in the surface, not on it.  Thus if the "gunk" stands proud under magnification or you can "catch" it with your fingernail or the edge of a razor blade, you can seriously consider very carefully and appropriately removing it from the underlying surface.

Bill Lawrence

  
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cellargun
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Re: Patina or just filthy?
Reply #17 - Apr 7th, 2022 at 8:49am
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Thanks to all who have replied and thanks for the suggestions. I decided to try the least expensive method for cleaning first. I tore down the rifle, took the lever and lower tang to a sink of hot soapy water. Steel wool and a soft carding brush for mechanical advantage, and the gunk peeled right off. I went outside with the stripped barreled action, a bucket of hot soapy water, this time with a scrubber I got from @ssrifles while visiting with him in Tulsa. A long hour later the crud was gone, the bare metal exposed. Careful scraping with a dulled wood chisel removed the rust that was standing proud of the surface. The barrel is pitted a bit, kind of brown, mostly silvery. The receiver is in excellent condition except for a few small dings, case colors gone to silver, and barely visible. The wood received an acetone bath with steel wool scrub. Changed the acetone, scrubbed again, finished with a soaked rag wipe down. Cut some stock finish 75/25 with mineral spirits, painted it on with a brush, keeping it wet for 5 minutes or so. It didn’t take much hand rubbing for it to soak it up like a sponge.
PS- I applied for a letter for this rifle from the Cody museum on Monday.
  
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Crown-C
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Re: Patina or just filthy?
Reply #18 - Apr 7th, 2022 at 10:01am
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Certainly sounds like you’ve made an excellent shooter out of this old Highwall. They can require a lot of work ,but it’s satisfying to bring them back to a useful life again. Good luck and hope it shoots well for you!
  

Richard
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Dellet
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Re: Patina or just filthy?
Reply #19 - Apr 7th, 2022 at 10:40am
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48 hours in and still no target results posted.

Worse yet, no way to know the accuracy effects of removing patina. Wink
  
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jimmy
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Re: Patina or just filthy?
Reply #20 - Apr 7th, 2022 at 12:07pm
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"It was Sunday, and the seller was ready to make deal, cut his asking price nearly 50%."


Shocked

Wow! Post some pictures when you get it cleaned up and back together.
  
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cellargun
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Re: Patina or just filthy?
Reply #21 - Apr 7th, 2022 at 3:10pm
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Crown-C- Excellent shooter? Not yet, but getting closer. Still need bullets and a way to seat them. I’m going to borrow a set of 41 Mag dies to see if they will accomplish that task. St. Mary’s, KS? I live in Leavenworth in the NE corner of the state.

Dellet- still no targets for the above reasons, along with constant wind since I got back @ a steady 20-25 with gusts to 40+.

jimmy- I have plenty of pictures, but I still haven’t figured out the best way to post any on this site with the need to shrink to a usable file size. There has to be a simple way, but I don’t know what it is.
  
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Crown-C
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Re: Patina or just filthy?
Reply #22 - Apr 7th, 2022 at 3:38pm
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Yes it’s windy, I just came back from my shop about 50 yards and I could barely stand up! Supposed to be windy today and tomorrow. I used to have a Burger King restaurant in Leavenworth in the eighties, but we sold it. Lots of Prisons in Leavenworth and off course the Army Command & General Staff school.
I don’t have anything chambered in 40-60, but do have some in 40-65. I don’t know how similar they are, I need to look it up.
Sometimes the bore in these old guns will clean up well enough to just be a shooter, if not then John Taylor or Lee Shaver, and several others could easily put a new liner in it. 
  

Richard
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Dellet
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Re: Patina or just filthy?
Reply #23 - Apr 7th, 2022 at 3:48pm
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cellargun wrote on Apr 7th, 2022 at 3:10pm:
Crown-C- Excellent shooter? Not yet, but getting closer. Still need bullets and a way to seat them. I’m going to borrow a set of 41 Mag dies to see if they will accomplish that task. St. Mary’s, KS? I live in Leavenworth in the NE corner of the state.

Dellet- still no targets for the above reasons, along with constant wind since I got back @ a steady 20-25 with gusts to 40+.

jimmy- I have plenty of pictures, but I still haven’t figured out the best way to post any on this site with the need to shrink to a usable file size. There has to be a simple way, but I don’t know what it is.


This may be helpful for sizing pics
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Depending how you have them stored, many email software programs Have a choice when you send them of the file size. You can email them to yourself at a reduced size and store them. Then use the “attach file”  box.

Here’s a 3 MOA bore photo sized at 146 KB.
  
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condorsc
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Re: Patina or just filthy?
Reply #24 - Apr 7th, 2022 at 6:53pm
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Here is a method I've used on many guns, fine specimens and junk. A double edge razor blade and gun oil if used carefully will instantly cut through rust, grime, and old oil. NEVER use steel wool, etc. Simply wet the surface with oil and GENTLY push the blade, often at a slant, through the surface grime. On curved surfaces, use a half razor blade. One can then curve the blade to match a curved surface with little fear of harming the bluing. You can actually remove live rust (not pitting) from a blued surface and never tell it was there. I have successfully cleaned many guns with this method. It is especially useful if you have faint stamping or lettering you wish to preserve. As to leather or gunstocks, I use Go-Jo ( mechanic's hand cleaner). Spread it on, let it set, remove gently.
  
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rkba2nd
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Re: Patina or just filthy?
Reply #25 - Apr 7th, 2022 at 7:53pm
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It is somewhat difficult to find double edge razor blades these days, but agree that both the above methods work exceptionally well. I have found also, that soaking metal parts in Hoppe's for a few days prior helps. Too, I find that old blades seem to work better for me than new made ones. More flexible.
  

rkba2nd
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rgchristensen
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Re: Patina or just filthy?
Reply #26 - Apr 7th, 2022 at 8:28pm
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You can boil them in plain water for 20 minutes or so, and it will turn the rust from brown to black, and loosen up the excrescences a bit so they can be rubbed off.

CHRIS
  
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MrTipUp
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Re: Patina or just filthy?
Reply #27 - Apr 7th, 2022 at 9:17pm
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I agree that careful, gentle scraping with a new razor blade and plenty of oil is often very effective.  But in my opinion. OOOO steel wool, when applied carefully and with plenty of oil, has its place, too, especially with "new"/active rust - the red, powdery stuff.

Also, you can easily pull the aluminum stiffener off of a single-edge razor blade if you want flexibility.

Bill Lawrence
  
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rkba2nd
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Re: Patina or just filthy?
Reply #28 - Apr 7th, 2022 at 9:31pm
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Thanks, I will try that for flat surfaces Bill.
  

rkba2nd
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John in PA
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Re: Patina or just filthy?
Reply #29 - Apr 8th, 2022 at 8:40am
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My "go-to" for removing old oxidized oil, varnish, and grime on steel is Gumout carburetor cleaner.  Scraper if needed can be the mouth of an old brass cartridge case. No matter how much scraping you do it will not scratch metal in any way. Smear of brass left on a surface will wipe away with a touch of oil or solvent on a rag. 

Kroil is another oil-based solvent that removes garbage well, though not as quickly as Gumout. Addad advantage to Kroil is it can also go to work loosening potentially stuck screws while the cleaning process is ongoing.
  

John Wells
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