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38-55 fixed ammo (Read 2919 times)

Joe_S Oldtimer Offline Posts: 996 Joined: Jun 29^th, 2004	38-55 fixed ammo Feb 27^th, 2022 at 10:25pm	Print Post
	When I first started shooting 38-55 I tried fixed ammo but could not avoid the "bulge" in the cases which resulted when the bullet was seated. The cases taper toward the front and the bullet is straight walled so I could not load a bullet without the ugly bulge. After messing with fixed ammo I started breach seating and eliminated the problem. Today I helped a friend load some cast bullets for a Win 94 and the bulged case reared its ugly head. In a magazine rifle, if the bulge is too severe, it impedes the functioning. After making a few adjustments, we were able to produce cartridges that would cycle through the action but they all had a bulge at the base of the bullet. I suspect factory ammo does not have that bulge but have no idea how they manage to avoid it. Is there any way to avoid it? Thanks! Joe S


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rkba2nd Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1933 Location: earth Joined: Feb 16^th, 2009	Re: 38-55 fixed ammo Reply #1 - Feb 27^th, 2022 at 11:57pm	Print Post
	The problem is related to the oversize groove diameter of many older 38-55 barrels. I have one highwall that is .382. the "bulge" is unavoidable. Starline brass is thinner at the mouth of the case to help in this regard, but if the loaded round will fit in your chamber, no harm is done, and after firing will hopefully solve a cosmetic problem. One can also outside neck turn the cases to help in this regard. If one can breech seat for target use, the problem does not exist. Some of the problem can also be created when the rifle/barrel was intended for paper patch bullets, and using them can usually solve the problem. Others here can also make other suggestions.

	rkba2nd
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ballardhepburnmich ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 598 Location: Scotts,mi. Joined: May 20^th, 2015	Re: 38-55 fixed ammo Reply #2 - Feb 28^th, 2022 at 1:42am	Print Post
	That is common in a lot of straight walled cases. Lee Gibbs Pres.ASSRA


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4570mike Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 386 Location: On the Peninsula Joined: Apr 11^th, 2013	Re: 38-55 fixed ammo Reply #3 - Feb 28^th, 2022 at 7:23am	Print Post
	I have experienced that issue while loading 38-55 fixed ammo. You didn’t mention your reloading routine, but one way to minimize the bulge is to not full length size the cases. I don’t have neck (only) dies, so I back out the sizing die about 0.90” and just size the upper portion of the case. This may eliminate “sharing” cases between different rifles. If you are using Star Line cases, I would be careful neck turning them as they are very thin to begin with. Before I started partially sizing, I was having periodic case separation right at the base of the bullet. Talking with a Star Line Tech, he said to check and be sure a fired case will accept a bullet by hand. If not, they maybe sized too much, hence only doing a partial re-size. Mike.


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art_ruggiero Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1084 Location: CT Joined: Dec 14^th, 2008	Re: 38-55 fixed ammo Reply #4 - Feb 28^th, 2022 at 7:58am	Print Post
	what mike said art


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Premod70 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 864 Location: North Carolina Joined: Jan 16^th, 2016	Re: 38-55 fixed ammo Reply #5 - Feb 28^th, 2022 at 9:07am	Print Post
	You can full length size the cases and use a rifle case expander sold by Buffalo Arms. The expander should be one thousandth smaller than the bullet’s diameter and when adjusted to full length the case will not be bulged when the bullets are seated. I buy the two step expanders making starting the bullet easier and no damage to the base, good luck


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cuslog Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 263 Location: Calgary, Alberta Joined: Dec 29^th, 2011	Re: 38-55 fixed ammo Reply #6 - Feb 28^th, 2022 at 10:01am	Print Post
	I've experienced the same bulged cases in my 38-55 loads. Only partially re-sizing helps a lot. No great expert here, but I believe that older 38-55's were ~.380 groove dia., where as newer manufactured are .375 groove. The thinner walled Starline brass helps as well. If starting from "scratch" with a new barrel, there's a "38-55 Macpherson" chamber reamer that's supposed to address the problem as well.


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Premod70 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 864 Location: North Carolina Joined: Jan 16^th, 2016	Re: 38-55 fixed ammo Reply #7 - Feb 28^th, 2022 at 10:16am	Print Post
	Lol, the problem is the amount of squeeze on the fired case during resizing. A production size die is way too undersize for some chambers and the right one for others. Either buy a custom die or go cheap by honeing out the die while retaining a slip fit to the rifle’s chamber, never ream a chamber if possible. The easy way is a custom expander, jmho.


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rkba2nd Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1933 Location: earth Joined: Feb 16^th, 2009	Re: 38-55 fixed ammo Reply #8 - Feb 28^th, 2022 at 2:06pm	Print Post
	the problem is the oversize groove diameter, making a large enough bullet to seal the bore necessary. The cause of the bulge is seating that oversize bullet in an oversized and undersize expanded case. The best solution is, as Premod70 suggested, a custom die, or having your size die opened to accept neck bushings. The bulge is in reality a cosmetic problem which is eliminated on firing, but re-occurs when full length sizing. By using neck bushings one sizes only that portion of the case neck that holds the bullet, helping to eliminate the bulge. As a side benefit, the brass is worked no more than necessary, as you are not also dragging it over an expander. If one has a lathe, this can be done with minimal tooling, if not there are some who will do this for you at reasonable cost.

	rkba2nd
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.22-5-40 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 797 Joined: Feb 13^th, 2010	Re: 38-55 fixed ammo Reply #9 - Feb 28^th, 2022 at 2:43pm	Print Post
	I have gone so far to polish case i.d. larger to eliminate tight fit..but this can lead to caese mouth cracking over time. Actually it isn't the groove dia. or chamber dia. mis-match thats the problem..it's the use of that new fangled "white" powder. Winchester designed this ctg. to use a .377 or so dia. bullet with a nominal .379 groove dia. to insure problem free repeat shots with the propellant this ctg. was designed for..Holy Black. The hammer blow of this powder would take care of the undersized bullet.


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ISS Oldtimer Offline Posts: 570 Joined: Feb 24^th, 2013	Re: 38-55 fixed ammo Reply #10 - Feb 28^th, 2022 at 5:07pm	Print Post
	This thread has been very helpful. A friend has been talking to me about buying his Marlin levergun in 38-55 for a couple months now. Is this an issue with lever rifles? Rich


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George Babits Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1102 Joined: Sep 27^th, 2012	Re: 38-55 fixed ammo Reply #11 - Feb 28^th, 2022 at 5:19pm	Print Post
	I have an original 1894 in 38-55 made in 1915. The groove diameter is .379 give or take. I size the bullets to .380 and load up. Bulge is very slight (WW brass) but the rounds will not chamber. I have a 38-55 file trim die so I simply run the neck a little ways into the trim die which "sizes" the neck and bullet back down enough to fully chamber. They shoot very well and when I'm doing my part I often get 1.25" groups at 100 yards from the sitting position. You can do the same thing with a full length sizing die by taking the primer punch out. I doubt you'd want to do that if you were a serious target shooter though. I think if I got a .379 sizing die I wouldn't have to size the round down, but it is working well as it is. George


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Premod70 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 864 Location: North Carolina Joined: Jan 16^th, 2016	Re: 38-55 fixed ammo Reply #12 - Feb 28^th, 2022 at 6:03pm	Print Post
	If I remember correctly Lyman makes a taper crimp die that will solve most chambering problems.


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rkba2nd Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1933 Location: earth Joined: Feb 16^th, 2009	Re: 38-55 fixed ammo Reply #13 - Feb 28^th, 2022 at 8:39pm	Print Post
	One can use black powder to upset the bullet and thus seal the bore, but an upset bullet does not necessarily lend itself to fine accuracy. It also is a pain to clean up after. Just one of many reasons smokeless powder and non mercuric primers thankfully came along. Joe_s, I don't believe, mentioned what propellant he is using, but it would seem adding more work to the mix is not the solution. Whatever solution he uses, I wish him well. I did check to see the current cost of converting your full length die to use neck bushings, and the cost would be $105.00 to include a custom made neck bushing. The custom bushing is required, as standard bushings are only available up to about .360.

	rkba2nd
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P08 Participating Member Offline Posts: 18 Joined: Nov 26^th, 2020	Re: 38-55 fixed ammo Reply #14 - Aug 19^th, 2022 at 8:21pm	Print Post
	I have the same problem, unfortunately I screwed up and bought Lee dies because that is all I could find. Using Starline brass and lead bullets sized .378. I then find out that Lee makes their .38-55 sizing die for the .375 and it sizes the brass too small. U guess I will have to fire form my brass and then try to not resize them. Learn from my mistake and never buy Lee crap!


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