Here's a question that was inspired by a recent post in the gunsmithing section on relining rifles chambered in 22 short to 22 long rifle.  And because I do not want to co-opt the post I thought I would put it up here because it brings up questions concerning the preservation and "collecectability" of antique rifles.  

Recently I have been looking at Winchester Winder Muskets but have discovered that finding one chambered in 22 long rifle would be like finding the proverbial chicken lips or needle in the haystack.   It appears to be very difficult and adding to the frustration is the fact that the 22 short appears to have gone the way of the 25 Stevens rimfire, obsolete.  

So my question is this.  Would it be "blasphamy" to reline a Winder Musket to 22 long rifle?  I totally understand leaving an antique alone but I too get the practicality of keeping a gun useful with available ammo.  And, the conversion would not prevent the use of shorts but instead it woud be upgrading the musket to modern standards of shooting short, long and long rifle cartridges.  

Anyway, it thought it would be interesting reading what you guys have to think about this in the context of this forum.  Thanks much. 

You could find another barrel and line it but I would just line the one you have Ken

Thanks guys, you've brought up points worth taking into consideration.

yamoon wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2022 at 12:03pm:


Maybe 22 shorts are suffering the same fate as a lot of other ammo these days and being hoarded.  I really don't know if  that is the problem here.  However, it seems like HV ammo may fit these rifles and work just fine.  Thanks  

If you want to refine go ahead,but I would rechamber to. 22lr and try it first, you'll be surprised. 
Lee Gibbs Pres.ASSRA

ballardhepburnmich wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 12:52am:


Makes good sense.  Thanks

ballardhepburnmich wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 12:52am:

 
If it's a 3rd Model Winder (ground down high wall action), just try chambering a Long Rifle cartridge.  Probably no need to rechamber.  I have one 2nd Model barrel in Short that will chamber a Long Rifle.  I think that's how they came from the factory.

I'd agree about availability of shorts, CCI might have just ran a batch. It's on the shelves now.

Amen, Brother Smoke!

Bill Lawrence

Shooting 22LR or 22 short ammo?

And at what range?

(not trying to be annoying, simply curious)

ballardhepburnmich wrote on Feb 28^th, 2022 at 1:51am:


Offhand, for sure.  Off the bench, yep, especially if you get rid of the military stuff; barrel band & military fore-end and maybe put a bobsled on the barrel.  The Winder wasn't competitive in 3- or 4-position smallbore matches because sling pressure changed point of impact.  That's why Winchester made the 52.

cellargun wrote on Mar 6^th, 2022 at 8:16pm:


The Winders in .22 Short had a 1/20" twist and a chamber that will take Long Rifle cartridges.  They do not shoot well with standard velocity Long Rifle loads, tried them in 3 different Winders.  But with High Velocity loads, accuracy is probably good enough for jackrabbits at 100 yards.   

Rifles in .22 Short made by other manufacturers had 1/24" or 1/25" twists and "shorter" chambers.

The only .22 rimfire with an 18" twist I've encountered is a Springfield Armory-made Model 1898 Krag Gallery Practice Rifle.  Chambered for Extra Long, with a .226" groove diameter.  It wouldn't shoot anything but CCI Stingers accurately. but was pretty impressive with them.

You can buy CCI ammo direct from their website. When .22 ammo was hard to find in the last year, I ordered some Standard Velocity direct and they shipped in 2-3 days.

ballardhepburnmich wrote on May 23^rd, 2022 at 12:33am:


If you go back to C.S. Landis writing about shooting .22s at 200 and 300 (!) yards, he reports the same results.  SV stuff was being pushed about by the wind.  Winchester Super X in a 1:20 twist barrel was less wind sensitive.

Chuckster wrote on May 23^rd, 2022 at 10:26pm:


Accurate shooting with a .22 at 300 yds is possible.  I'll assume you are using a scope.  I tried it with my Lyman STS but ran out of clicks just as the bell of the scope touched the barrel.  Wound up aiming at an offset target.

Using an external adjusted scope, high scope blocks might solve the problem.

cpace wrote on May 26^th, 2022 at 3:48pm:


It has not been rechambered.  The original rifles (Winder Muskets) were made during WW1 and were chambered to accept whatever crappy ammo was on hand at a military basic training range.   

The 1 in 20 twist does not work well with Standard Velocity Long Rifle cartridges.  But if you use copper-plated High Velocity Long Rifles, the accuracy may surprise you.  I've never tried them with Stingers, etc.

The Winders were not intended to be target rifles.  They were intended as teaching tools, to teach 2 million recruits or National Guardsmen to shoot in a very short period of time.  Many of the trainees had never even held a gun before, let alone fire a rifle.  The sights on the 3rd Model were very much like the sights on the US Model 1917, the rifle that the National Army (mostly draftees) would use.

 

A SS rifle in fine condition needs no liner.