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40-65 Winchester characteristics... (Read 3696 times)

1isenough Full Member Offline Posts: 202 Location: Louisville, KY Joined: Dec 28^th, 2017	40-65 Winchester characteristics... Jan 5^th, 2022 at 5:39am	Print Post
	Thinking about a lined barrel for a 43 Egyptian rolling block in 40-65, because I can make brass from 45-70 and it has less recoil. Anybody know what the pressure rating of the 40-65 is, and if it would be an acceptable cartridge for the #1 RB using 250-300 grain bullets?


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4570mike Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 460 Location: On the Peninsula Joined: Apr 11^th, 2013	Re: 40-65 Winchester characteristics... Reply #1 - Jan 5^th, 2022 at 10:05am	Print Post
	I have several 40-65's and bought the latest edition of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook for smokeless loads. All their loads topped out about 18K C.U.P. The data was noted to be for modern firearms, not antiques. This does, however, seem on a par with C.U.P. limits stated for the 45-70 in Trap Door rifles including older Rolling blocks. I'm sure not to be the last word on this, but it would seem the beginning 40-65 smokeless loads (14K-15K C.U.P.) would be worth considering. Mike.


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beltfed Frequent Elocutionist Online Posts: 1823 Location: Central Wi Joined: Dec 20^th, 2007	Re: 40-65 Winchester characteristics... Reply #2 - Jan 5^th, 2022 at 10:50am	Print Post
	4570 Mike is right. This 43 Spanish original Roller of the BP era was and is strong enough for the BP loaded 43 spanish. The 43 Spanish has a larger base and rim diameter and can be expected to have greater back thrust than the 45-70 and the 40-65 loaded to BP pressures of +- 18,000 cup. The BP rollers have been used extensively and safely for 45-70 rebarrels. So, 40-65 loaded to similar "Trapdoor" level BP pressures with BP or with smokeless should be OK. As also said above, with smokeless start with starting loads from the Lyman No 4 CBH Oh, and Personally I would rebarrel with a modern barrel rather than liner installation since the original 43 spanish barrels are so thin. The added weight with, say a nice No 3 GM octagon or round barrel will be helpful, too. And not much difference in cost VS Lining the original. But, if the 43 spanish roller happens to be "minty" , I would just shoot it with the original chambering and find another lesser condition roller and rebarrel it if you want that great 40-65 cartridge with easy to get and cheap 45-70 brass to neck down. beltfed/arnie


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18035 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: 40-65 Winchester characteristics... Reply #3 - Jan 5^th, 2022 at 11:13am	Print Post
	I've got a Rolling Block I built on an original Sporting action in .40-65 Win. that I've shot for over a decade now, and it's never seen BP loads. My bullets range from 315-370 grs. usually, but also have a Lyman Snover that drops around 420 grs., and shoots extremely well. I use 4198 in my loads, which is below the 25,000 rating most experts say the old BP actions are good for. I also have a Ballard in the .40-65 I shoot a lot with the same loads, and currently having my Hepburn rebarreled to .40-65 also. I think it's a really great cartridge choice for older actions, and does well with the right smokeless or BP loads.

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JKR Full Member Offline Posts: 152 Joined: Nov 2^nd, 2021	Re: 40-65 Winchester characteristics... Reply #4 - Jan 5^th, 2022 at 5:32pm	Print Post
	I agree with Arnie regarding the cost of a liner versus re barreling. I recently had a liner installed and although I’m very happy with the results, the cost ended up the same as if I had re barreled. JKR


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18035 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: 40-65 Winchester characteristics... Reply #5 - Jan 5^th, 2022 at 5:38pm	Print Post
	JKR wrote on Jan 5^th, 2022 at 5:32pm: I agree with Arnie regarding the cost of a liner versus re barreling. I recently had a liner installed and although I’m very happy with the results, the cost ended up the same as if I had re barreled. JKR I'd almost always prefer a new barrel, unless I wanted to retain an original barrel's markings and condition externally for collector reasons. But most military Rolling Blocks wont have collector value, and will be much better shooting guns with a heavier new barrel. A liner on one of those old .43 barrels would be almost as large as the barrel in the front half of the barrel.

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gnoahhh Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1063 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Joined: Mar 31^st, 2010	Re: 40-65 Winchester characteristics... Reply #6 - Jan 6^th, 2022 at 4:37pm	Print Post
	Pardon my ignorance of things big bore black powder, but is there any advantage to choosing a .40-65 over a .40-63/70 Ballard, given brass availability being out of the equation?


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18035 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: 40-65 Winchester characteristics... Reply #7 - Jan 6^th, 2022 at 4:55pm	Print Post
	gnoahhh wrote on Jan 6^th, 2022 at 4:37pm: Pardon my ignorance of things big bore black powder, but is there any advantage to choosing a .40-65 over a .40-63/70 Ballard, given brass availability being out of the equation? Almost everything will be easier to get, and more available for the .40-65 Win. vs. the .40-63/70 Ballard. Dies are cheaper, and easier to get. Brass is always cheaper and easier, and .45-70 brass is almost always available. Even the reamers to chamber the barrel are cheaper and easier to get, or rent. I love the .40-63 Ballard, and I'm set up great with everything I need for it. But I'm having my Hepburn with a bad .40-70SS (almost identical to the Ballard .40-63/70) barreled and chambered in .40-65 right now. Mainly because of all the reasons I mentioned above. Plus I'm set up for it also, but have far more brass for .40-65 too.

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oneatatime Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4465 Location: Rocky Mountains Joined: Oct 30^th, 2011	Re: 40-65 Winchester characteristics... Reply #8 - Jan 6^th, 2022 at 4:55pm	Print Post
	I would think that the brass would be reason enough unless you were rebarreling a Ballard.


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1isenough Full Member Offline Posts: 202 Location: Louisville, KY Joined: Dec 28^th, 2017	Re: 40-65 Winchester characteristics... Reply #9 - Jan 6^th, 2022 at 10:26pm	Print Post
	Tons of good info - thanks to each of you for taking the time. I'm pretty sure I am going with a .400/.408 bore/groove liner with a 1:14 twist. The liner has an OD of 5/8" so I will have to shorten the barrel about 3 inches, to about 30", which is OK with me (don't like the bayonet lug anyway). The donor barrel cost me $100, and the liner will be $182 shipped. No threading or fitting cost, just the reamer ($45) so a total of $325 which seems reasonable to me for a second barrel. Time to sharpen the 5/8" core drill and get started.


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18035 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: 40-65 Winchester characteristics... Reply #10 - Jan 6^th, 2022 at 11:43pm	Print Post
	What the outside diameter of the barrel at the 3" shorter length? If it doesn't have a fair amount of meat left after drilling it out to 5/8" diameter hole, it could result in some fitment and quality issues. I'd want it to be around 1" so it had at least 1/8" wall after boring it out.

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feren Participating Member Offline Posts: 18 Joined: Jan 27^th, 2022	Re: 40-65 Winchester characteristics... Reply #11 - Feb 3^rd, 2022 at 8:06pm	Print Post
	which is the most favored? the 40-65 straight wall or bottleneck?


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rgchristensen Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1188 Joined: Jan 2^nd, 2014	Re: 40-65 Winchester characteristics... Reply #12 - Feb 3^rd, 2022 at 8:08pm	Print Post
	feren wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2022 at 8:06pm: which is the most favored? the 40-65 straight wall or bottleneck? Not a SAAMI cartridge, so there are a lot of different chambers out there. CHRIS


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ISS Oldtimer Offline Posts: 570 Joined: Feb 24^th, 2013	Re: 40-65 Winchester characteristics... Reply #13 - Feb 13^th, 2022 at 9:01pm	Print Post
	from what I have seen, the 40-65-400gr and the 45-70-500gr have similar flight patterns. The 40 will have about 20% less recoil, and the brass is easy to form from 45-70. I have owned both, and for most types of competition I would favor the .40. Rich


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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2601 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: 40-65 Winchester characteristics... Reply #14 - Feb 18^th, 2022 at 9:56am	Print Post
	feren wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2022 at 8:06pm: which is the most favored? the 40-65 straight wall or bottleneck? If I were to build a .40-65 for shooting fixed ammo, I would base the chamber on what Shiloh Sharps uses. I have two of them and they are superbly accurate. Brass is very easy to make from .45-70. Chris


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