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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Stevens 44 /2 (Read 7153 times)
chipmaker
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Stevens 44 /2
Nov 1st, 2021 at 2:40pm
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I knew that my new Stevens would require a good cleaning and some rust abatement but was surprised, when I discovered that it had been fitted with a through bolt.
The rifle has a heavy 25 5/8" barrel, chambered for the 218 Bee. At the time of its through bolt modification, the top tang was shortened and a screw in the lower tang eliminated one or more of the serial numbers. The remaining serial numbers are 3(.375"hole)43. It appears to have had a variety of scope mounts fitted and currently wears a Redfield mount and Weaver scope. The maker is unknown and I have some questions that I hope that someone here can answer.
Does anyone recognize the through bolt modification?
Does anyone know J. BUNCH?
I suspect that the new lower tang hole eliminated one serial number, as a serial number in the 3,000 range makes more sense than one in the 30,000 range. Yes?
Thanks for your help
Otto
« Last Edit: Nov 3rd, 2021 at 7:58pm by chipmaker »  
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chipmaker
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #1 - Nov 1st, 2021 at 2:41pm
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Here are the remaining photos.
  
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Sure shot
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #2 - Nov 1st, 2021 at 4:25pm
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Looks like you will have a fine looking rifle when it is finished. Yes, a serial number in the 3000 range makes since, it certainly wouldn’t be in the 30,000 range, but a three digit number is possible too. I have one in the 800 or 900 range. How about a picture of the bottom of the tang with the serial number?
  
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chipmaker
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #3 - Nov 1st, 2021 at 4:50pm
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Ss
I think that I can convince myself that there is a partial #2 at the right edge of the hole.
  
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #4 - Nov 1st, 2021 at 9:05pm
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After looking at a couple of my 44 1/2’s, it looks like the hole obliterating part of the serial number is actually where the original screw location for the mainspring, but drilled and countersunk much larger. There is a space in the serial numbers on my rifles where the threaded hole for the mainspring is,(on either side of of the hole). I agree with you that the partial number sure looks like a 2. I see your rifle is missing the mainspring, do you have one for it?
  
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chipmaker
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #5 - Nov 2nd, 2021 at 11:35am
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Ss
No missing parts but the parts were dry, with light surface rust and I've disassembled the rifle for a good cleaning.
It looks as if the builder drilled and countersunk the original mainspring screw hole, from the other side. The mainspring is located in its usual location and held in position by the bottom of the through bolt piece.
None of my other Stevens 44 1/2 rifles have a through bolt. Is this a common modification?
Has anyone heard of J. BUNCH?
Otto
« Last Edit: Nov 3rd, 2021 at 7:59pm by chipmaker »  
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MrTipUp
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #6 - Nov 2nd, 2021 at 11:55am
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In my estimation, chipmaker, your through bolt modification is very clever and well thought out.  And in my collecting experience, such modifications are certainly not "common", especially on Stevens models.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #7 - Nov 2nd, 2021 at 12:27pm
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Does the mortice cut out to accommodate the through bolt attachment go all the way to the face of the action. 
Please post a picture if possible.
  

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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #8 - Nov 2nd, 2021 at 2:19pm
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Some years ago I did a through-bolt mod to one of my 44s, but I didn't do it like that.  I doubt that's it's common.  

That complex shaped block method might have been conceived to deal with a broken upper tang?
  

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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #9 - Nov 2nd, 2021 at 4:01pm
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JL
Attached are photos of the mortice cut and the crack on the right side. Despite the fact that it didn't prevent the cracked stock, I like the retained wood island. I suspect that it helps to strengthen the wrist area.
All the wood to metal contact areas show evidence of epoxy bedding. The original owner is said to be an accomplished target shooter and also interested in varmint rifles but the seller of the rifle had no additional history on the rifle.
uscra112
It appears as if the through bolt block used the original mainspring screw hole, on the lower tang and the rear tang sight hole, in the top tang.
The barrel has nine scope mounting holes, suggesting that the rifle has been used with a variety of scopes.The shortened top tang does move the front of the comb forward about 1", which may have helped the original owner obtain optimum eye relief.
Otto
  
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #10 - Nov 2nd, 2021 at 5:17pm
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Moving the comb forward souls like a plausible reason.
  

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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #11 - Nov 2nd, 2021 at 6:07pm
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The back of the frame should have a radius milled in it between the top and bottom tang.  The wood should be inlet tightly into that radius.  By doing this it will greatly improve the strength of the wood to metal fit by anchoring the front of the stock in the frame and would have probably prevented the crack in the spacer block. No amount of epoxy will replace that wood.
Bob
  

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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #12 - Nov 2nd, 2021 at 6:26pm
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Couple pictures of what I am talking about.  This also hold the front of the stock solid vertically to the frame as well as horizontally.
Bob
  

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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #13 - Nov 2nd, 2021 at 8:06pm
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Thank you so very much for your reply and your stocks mortice pictures for the through bolt attachment. And the best that I have personally seen to date!
  

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chipmaker
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #14 - Nov 3rd, 2021 at 1:04pm
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Thanks to all for your comments.
I'm still looking for someone who knows who J. BUNCH was/is.
bobw
Yes. The 44 1/2 frame does have the milled radius between the top and bottom of the tangs and the Stevens stocks do have an extension that fits into this area. It seems as if the stocktaker deleted this feature on this stock.
I checked several original Stevens stocks and none have the stock extension tightly inletted into the milled radius. The stock pictured is typical of my factory stocks and the extension is only about .100" long. 
I'd agree that tight inletting between the frame and the front of the stock would increase strength but I'm not sure that this was routinely done by the factory.
Do any Stevens 44 1/2 rifle owners have a rifle with tight inletting into the radius milled inside the frame between the top and bottom tangs?
Does anyone have a picture of how CPA does their through bolt conversion?
Does anyone have a picture of any other Stevens 44 1/2 through bolt conversions?
Otto
« Last Edit: Nov 3rd, 2021 at 8:00pm by chipmaker »  
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #15 - Nov 3rd, 2021 at 3:28pm
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chipmaker wrote on Nov 3rd, 2021 at 1:04pm:
Thanks to all for your comments.
I'm still looking for someone who knows who C. BUNCH was/is.


It might help if you looked for "J. Bunch", since that's what's stamped on the barrel.
  
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #16 - Nov 3rd, 2021 at 7:57pm
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gewehr
Thanks for the heads up. Yes. It is J BUNCH but searches for both J and C BUNCH got no hits.
Otto
  
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #17 - Nov 3rd, 2021 at 9:03pm
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Try to get copies of Michael Petrov's two volume study of 20th century custom gun makers.  They're rather expensive to buy, but a shooting friend might have them or perhaps you can obtain them through inter-library loan.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #18 - Nov 4th, 2021 at 12:42pm
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TU
Reviewed both of M. Petrov's books but no J. Bunch seen. 
Actually, while the design of the through bolt is interesting, the quality of the workmanship, in both wood and metal, isn't guild quality.
Otto
  
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #19 - Nov 7th, 2021 at 5:06am
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Lot of “J Bunch” hits on Ancestry.com.  Figuring out which one is connected to your gun would take a lot of work & luck. Could focus on likely birth date,  someone who would build a rifle like yours. Probably 1900 or later & before 1950

Another separation could be place Mr Bunch lived. Look for Varmint Rifle use locations. Luck would be finding a Bunch with a trade that is linked to gunsmiths in obituary’s 

Boats
  
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #20 - Nov 8th, 2021 at 12:41pm
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Boats
Thanks for your research suggestions. 
I have no idea of J. Bunch's birth date or where he might have lived. 
I think that we can narrow down the date of the conversion a little. I'd suggest the period from 1937 to 1968 would seem reasonable, as the 218 Bee didn't come along until 1937 and the federal firearms law of 1968 emphasized the importance of serial numbers. 
A friend has a book dealing with 22 varmint rifles. A brief look at the book, during my last visit, revealed many unfamiliar shooters and gunsmiths. I'll look at the book carefully during my next visit.
Otto
  
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #21 - Nov 8th, 2021 at 1:45pm
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Having worked on CPA's with through bolts the mortice has gone all the way to the face of the action. When putting a white piece of paper under the action in this area I have been able to clearly see light on both sides of the action. From the back of the tang all the way back to the actions frame. The only contact points left are two very small cheeks on each that are just barely contacting the frame. The issues that I have worked on personally is this created and issue with the triggers actually working or not. If the through bolt is to tight they tend not work and if backed off until they do now work the contact points at the back of the action are no longer tight enough. And that now becomes a swivel point and accuracy is now non obtainable. But there is a real fine line when everything will actually work, no more swivel point and double sets will now work. What I believe is actually taking place is the bottom tang is being flexed just enough for the entire trigger group to no longer work as was originally designed. I might also add that I have personally worked on more than one having this same issue. And all though there are four screws, two on each side attaching the bottom tang to the frame it can still flex enough for the triggers to no longer work. These were also just after CPA offered a through bolt option and I don't know if they have since changed that original design. 
  

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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #22 - Nov 8th, 2021 at 7:18pm
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LJ
Thanks for your comment.
It appears as if the Stevens 44 1/2 through bolt system pulls the butt stock into contact with the back of the action, as well as the back of the two tangs. Getting all three contact points seated with equal pressure is the goal, as well as avoiding additional contact points, that might cause the "swivel point effect" referred to in your response.
Could you answer the following questions:
1. Do you have any photos of the CPA through bolt system? I wonder if it is similar, in concept, to the "Bunch" system.
2. In the actions that you saw, was the wood solidly inletted into the inside radial cuts, at the back of the action, as suggested by "bobw" earlier in this thread?
My plan to restore the butt stock, includes the following:
1. Inlett the wood to the back of the action, including the radial inside cuts, at the rear of the action.
2. Ensure that there is no wood contact at the back of the tangs and the back of the through bolt block between the tangs.
3. After #1 & 2, epoxy bed the back of the upper and lower tangs.
4. Finally, refresh the epoxy bedding around the action, as was originally done.
I'd appreciate any comments, if it looks as if I missed something important.
Otto
  
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #23 - Nov 13th, 2021 at 8:03pm
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In cleaning up the action, I discovered that the serial number was stamped on the extractor. There was also the initials TR engraved/stamped on the other side.
Does anyone know who TR was?
Otto 
  
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #24 - Nov 13th, 2021 at 8:15pm
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Looks like L.R. to me for .22 long rifle. Extractors are often stamped with the serial number and or caliber.

Appears your rifle was in .22 long  rifle originally. Does the breech block appear to have been converted from rimfire to centerfire?
« Last Edit: Nov 13th, 2021 at 8:28pm by Sure shot »  
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #25 - Nov 14th, 2021 at 12:22pm
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Ss
Thanks for your input. I was unaware that the serial numbers and caliber were stamped on Steven's extractors.
I'll check the other parts for serial numbers as I clean them. Do you know of any additional action parts that might have a serial number?
Yes. The breech block does look as if it was converted from rim fire to center fire. The firing pin was also reduced to .062".
The main issue now is removal of the barrel, which is super tight and might have some epoxy or Loctite in the threads.
Otto
  
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #26 - Nov 14th, 2021 at 12:49pm
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chipmaker, can you take a picture of the rear of the breech block for me?  I’m curious how they did the conversion.  Is the original pin body hole used with an offset new pin or was the old pin body hole milled out with an insert fitted then rebored for a new pin with a centered pin?  
Bob
  

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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #27 - Nov 14th, 2021 at 1:26pm
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Unfortunately I don't have any pictures to share on hand. On one of the rifles the contact points / stock to action on side was not touching the back of action. The mortice cut from back of action to back of tang. Left very little as  contact / bearing points. And to the point of allowing the wood to per-say warped and no longer being straight with the tangs. I don't recall the rear contact of the back of the tangs to the stock. It is typically an area of having no direct contact to minimize possible wood splitting. My own CPA uses the tang screws and both tangs and the contact points at the face of the back of the action have been fully epoxy bedded. This has also improved accuracy and the screws also put forward pressure towards the action when tightened. I also replaced the tapered tang screws that had a tendency to back out with straight shanked screws with very course threads and that has eliminated that issue.  The end result is there is now no flex between stock and action or a means for possible movement. 
I hope that helps to answer your questions and the original barrel a 32-40 has 140'000+ bullets down the bore. And there has been damage caused to the stock by having the back of the tangs being in hard and direct contact with the stock.
  

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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #28 - Nov 14th, 2021 at 2:28pm
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For any of those who might have shown an interest in the tang replacement screws that I used here is a picture of one.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  

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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #29 - Nov 14th, 2021 at 2:31pm
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Chipmaker, the extractors are not always stamped with a serial number or caliber, but often are. As far as serial numbers being stamped on other parts, I have only seen the buttplate stamped, and sometimes you can see the serial number written in pencil on the butt end of the stock, and the barrel channel of the forearm.
Sometimes 44 1/2 rimfire breech blocks are stamped with the caliber, usually just a 22,25, or 32. 

As you can see only one of the loose extractors I had laying around had been stamped with the serial number, but all were stamped with the caliber.

  
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #30 - Nov 14th, 2021 at 4:59pm
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How interesting that your 22 LR extractor is stamped on the other side with an "0" (number) or "O" (letter) and the infamous "EX".  Both those stamps are often found on the action faces of Stevens rifles and have given collectors and researchers cat fits for years about what they might mean.

In any case, I have to ask, does the action the .22 LR extractor goes to also have the "0"/"O" and/or "EX" stamps?

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #31 - Nov 14th, 2021 at 5:53pm
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This rifle does not have the EX stamp on the front of the action. The rifle does not have any special order extras. It has a original non-matching .32-40 barrel on it with an excellent bore. I do have the matching serial number .22 long rifle barrel, but it has a horrible bore.
  
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #32 - Nov 14th, 2021 at 6:32pm
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Many people, including myself, long thought that "EX" was an indicator of the rifle having something "extra" - i.e. different from the catalog specifications.  But a survey made here several years ago pretty much disproved that explanation.  Oh, well.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #33 - Nov 14th, 2021 at 6:44pm
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I’m not surprised at that, but I have a couple of 44 1/2’s that have the EX stamp on the front of the action that do have special order extras. So who knows?
  
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #34 - Nov 15th, 2021 at 1:06pm
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bobw
The breechblock looks as if he used the original hole at the rear and offset the firing pin. It may not be obvious in the photos but the firing pin tip is retained by solder.
I've converted two Stevens 44 1/2 breechblocks from rimfire to centerfire, by filling the original hole and re-drilling. This method allows a centered firing pin tip but I had to fill and reposition the firing pin retaining screw.
JL
It appears as if tight inletting of the stock to the back of the action is important, especially in rifles chambered for hard recoiling cartridges. In your target rifle, did you inlet the radiused cuts, as recommended by bobw earlier in this thread?
Ss
I don't see any caliber marking on the rimfire breechblock or any additional markings on the remaining parts. The rifle came with a deteriorated butt pad, that I replaced. The action is marked similar to the one you have pictured with the model number and O/0.
Otto
  
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #35 - Nov 15th, 2021 at 2:06pm
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" JL
It appears as if tight inletting of the stock to the back of the action is important, especially in rifles chambered for hard recoiling cartridges. In your target rifle, did you inlet the radiused cuts, as recommended by bobw earlier in this thread? "
I am not sure exactly what he was referring too?? All of the back of the action including both tangs have been fully epoxied beded to the butt stock. And minus any gaps if that might help to answer his question.
  

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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #36 - Nov 15th, 2021 at 5:34pm
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JL
Thanks for your response. I did a poor job of identifying the area in question but maybe a picture will help.
In the photo below, The radiused areas in  question are milled just inside the right and left rear side walls and I've covered both areas with a piece of tape. 
I'm not completely certain that the areas shown are what bobw referred to in his previous replies #11 and 12 but maybe he can confirm that we are talking about the same area.
His previous recommendation, to tightly inlet the "radiused areas" makes sense but I questioned whether it was done routinely in factory stocks.
I examined four of my Stevens 44 1/2 rifles and while all had a short extension of the butt stock into the radiused areas, none were tightly fitted.
Otto   
  
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #37 - Nov 15th, 2021 at 6:35pm
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Otto, yes this is the area I was referring to.

My opinion is this area should be inlet tightly and/or bedded on a 44 1/2.  Doesn't matter how deep it is fitted into the frame just as long as its in.  Also my opinion is the factory was in production and most guns were not for target shooting, they were just turning out product.  Not that it make much difference now, due to wood drying out and time, but it might be interesting to see how a factory target gun was setup.

I've included your picture here in order to help show why I believe this needs to be done.

Looking at the front in the picture, the wood is bridged at the top, but is not at the bottom.  The bottom is where the biggest concern is.  By bedding the tangs and the front face of the stock to the back of the frame, yes, you get a solid point for straight recoil, but without the tenon set into the rear of the frame nothing is holding the wood from flexing or spreading at the bottom and away from the lower tang.  The tang retains the wood on the inside, and the tenon, the spreading to the outside.  The tenon should also do a better job of retain the stock at the top and not allow the top bridge to split down the center.  Simply bedding the stock to the rear of the frame and tangs does not hold the stock from twisting out at the bottom.  Just because there is a through bolt, that holds the wood against the frame, verses a couple of wood screws does not make up for the tenon.
Hope this clears up why I originally brought this up and my reasons why.  Also apologize if I sound angry because I'm not! Embarrassed
Bob
  

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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #38 - Nov 15th, 2021 at 7:12pm
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Thank you Bobw and it is has been so long back when I actually did my CPA. I really do not now recall if that area is the same? Unfortunately I would now have to take it apart to be able to compare. Unfortunately it shoots so extremely well that I am not so sure that I actually want to right now. Going to sit on it for awhile before I actually decide, but it is also now driving me crazy by not doing so right now. Back when I built my 28-35 on a FBW's Model J action. I actually made and then added the tapered tail piece found on a Ballad action. I then cloned it, the angle and then fully  epoxy bedded it into the butt stock. This to eliminate any undue flex and I have now worked on so many various rifles for friends. I just cannot recall the area in question on my CPA and apparently my age and the lack of my memory on something's are now just getting the best of me. But I do know if that area is the same as a CPA I did and would have also epoxy bedded it.
  

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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #39 - Nov 26th, 2021 at 11:42am
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Chipmaker-Found a reference to a John Bunch from Garland, Texas mentioned in an article called "Golden Era Gunsmiths" in the February 1993 Precision Shooting. The author mentioned his help with the project, so he was probably around at that time.
  
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chipmaker
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Re: Stevens 44 /2
Reply #40 - Nov 26th, 2021 at 11:58am
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25 cal
Thanks for the tip.
I'll see where it leads.
Otto
  
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