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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Breech seated 22 rimfire (Read 6528 times)
bpjack
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Re: Breech seated 22 rimfire
Reply #30 - Oct 21st, 2021 at 9:33pm
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Frank found it less expensive than using quality fixed ammo with results approaching that of the expensive stuff. 

Jack
  

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Re: Breech seated 22 rimfire
Reply #31 - Oct 21st, 2021 at 9:37pm
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westerner wrote on Oct 21st, 2021 at 8:27pm:
Jeff_Schultz wrote on Oct 21st, 2021 at 4:48pm:
I don't understand why anyone would want to breech seat rimfire ammo when you can do it so much more easily with a 22 Hornet?


Thumbs up. 

What happend to the other imoticons?   Thumbs up are not allowed now?


I would appreciate it if you guys would go easy on people with crazy rimfire ideas. Or at least make sure you’re clearly talking about the 22 folks.  Angry

Any way, back to converting 17WSM to .25. I would hate to be called crazy for breech seating the bullet and propelling it with a nail gun blank. Cheesy



  
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Re: Breech seated 22 rimfire
Reply #32 - Oct 21st, 2021 at 10:01pm
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Jeff
IMO, the reason for the interest in breech seating .22LR is to compete in rimfire matches.
  

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Re: Breech seated 22 rimfire
Reply #33 - Oct 21st, 2021 at 10:10pm
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Jeff Schultz   The reason for experimenting is the basis for innovation, read improvement. I am not aware of the person, or persons, who first breech seated bullets ahead of a charged cartridge case, but it has certainly gone over well! As to the 22Hornet, one could not shoot a rimfire match with it, and the main reason for breech seating 22 LR is to potentially avoid the errant round that raises it's ugly head when least expected, and also unexplained, and hopefully keeping the cost down, compared to high end ammunition would be a bonus. At least that is the reason why I would want to experiment with breech seating the 22 rimfire.
  

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Re: Breech seated 22 rimfire
Reply #34 - Oct 21st, 2021 at 11:11pm
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"the main reason for breech seating 22 LR is to potentially avoid the errant round that raises it's ugly head when least expected, and also unexplained"

Krag,
I'd say that probably sums it up for me.  I'm not saying that I'm going to do it but I've spent time deep in a rabbit hole before doing much sillier research than this. Like following Mann's lead shooting through frames with paper on it spaced at the twist intervals and studying the flight just to get my mind around it...  time lost out of a day in my life that I'll never get back... Grin Grin

I love shooting the 22rf because I DON'T have to reload for it. 

Now this same retard we're talking about has taken the 22rf builds to a different level than most.  How many? I can't even put a number to them any longer.  It use to be I'd buy two action castings from Rodney as he'd come up with them.  One for a 22rf and then one for some CF.  I can't even say the CF's come close on the balance anymore, they pale in comparison.   
In some situations I manage to build a rifle, get the barrel/chamber/load combination to work and the rifle doesn't even like the high dollar stuff to make it happy.  BUT!!! I have a few combinations, that no matter what I throw at it, it is so picky that the .48˘ a round shoots well up to a point but something is amuck! Gut the thing, start over, same results.  On a whim I fill a case with 4 grains of 4F Swiss, shove a card over the powder, compress it .020", jam a Mos 42 gr UMC down the barrel throat, seat the case and if I even do half of my part -the results are staggering- wonder what it would look like if somebody good was behind the trigger.  It's not quite that simple - as there is fouling control and other elements to deal with, but you cast, inspect, pan lube, if it concerns you the bullets get weighed and the brass gets sorted.  I have several pounds now of finer grain black - found several of Swiss 4f today, at 4 grains each there's probably enough to run through the 20K or was it 40K? primed brass I got a while back with some left over. Cheesy Cheesy

To sum it up, I preach in my class the phrase that accurate rifles are interesting.  A 22 that shoots a wonderful group up until that unexplained flier - doesn't cut it - a little control on the ingredients is a game changer for CF why not RF?
 
When the weather cooperates a little better at my location, I'm thinking the grudge match with the gate latch gun guys will return - we'll see how that looks now. Wink
  

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Re: Breech seated 22 rimfire
Reply #35 - Oct 22nd, 2021 at 12:48am
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GT  Thanks for the insight into your interpretation of experimenting just for the act of experimenting. I certainly don't have at my disposal the equipment, talent and drive that you do, but still like to try things that I think may work, even if in the end it turns out it was a dead end road. Sometimes some nice scenery  along the way, and occasionally a glimpse of a side road that may show promise. When dinking around with wildcatting cartridges some years ago, I would come up with something that looked like it had potential, Lee or another friend would say it looks good, but so and so came up with it years ago. I still contend it was worth my time. One that I fooled with was a 30-30 case run into an 8.15X46 die and left full length. Then shortened it till it looked right, then my friend Neal said that Wayne Schwarz had done essentially the same a few years prior. The good that came of it, was that Neal was able to borrow Wayne's reamer, chambered a Pfeifer barrel fit to a highwall action, and I was able to shoot a cartridge that I was way late to the table with. I feel that any endeavor is worth whatever effort you are willing to put into it. To me, it is the best way to learn and move forward.                                       
   Thanks also for all the effort you put forth, and the time you take to share it with all of us, even better than Road Runner cartoons!!! Good to meet you face to face at the CGCA show. I am already looking forward to next year.   Krag
  

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Re: Breech seated 22 rimfire
Reply #36 - Oct 22nd, 2021 at 9:06am
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A little history on .22 breech seating (that I am aware of)
Frank Zika did some .22 rimfire breech seating back in the early 90s he had a tighter twist rimfire barrel and cast some longer bullets that he cast himself. If I am remembering correctly that is when the question came up the first time.

Barry Darr did some extensive testing on breech seating a 22 hornet. he built the cutest little mold about 2/3s the size of his regular molds and cast his own bullets. He got sone pretty impressive results in his testing.

40 Rod
  
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Re: Breech seated 22 rimfire
Reply #37 - Oct 22nd, 2021 at 9:35am
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I had been trying .22 breech seating out with a Brooks made .22 heel bullet,LBT tapered design and an Eagan tapered design mold in my 223 #1.Success has been mixed.i plan to try again this winter.The Brooks bullet did as well loaded as fixed ammo.I had best success with Rooster Liquid Jacket tumble lube.
Best groups with all bullets was .75" at 100 but reasons for  random wild shots were never resolved.
  
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Re: Breech seated 22 rimfire
Reply #38 - Oct 22nd, 2021 at 11:09am
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Krag,   
It was a pleasure to meet you and thank you for your responses.

40_Rod, 
I read some about the experimenting that Frank did.  It does intrigue me. I do some longer range shooting with this lowly rimfire and have a setup at my place that allows 400 yards.  So there is more to this story than just breech seating to shoot in a rifle match.  This is another can of worms. 

CBA,
Thanks for the input.  I haven't experimented with lube much, I'm using a simple BW, (non flax  Grin my bees only attend alfalfa plants), vaseline and STP...   I make a cookie of sorts- it's a pair of .010" card stock with green felt that was dipped in the lube and wiped, compressed slightly between the two cards and shoved in the freezer.  Once it's set up, I punch wads until it begins to warm... seems to be working.  (I started with aluminum foil and that read the rules that the wad couldn't be metallic...)


A few years back when I was shooting the gate latch guns Grin (these are bolt guns) another path I went down was making jacketed bullets from 22rf cases.  Richard Corbin was making dies to do this and he had the process nearly perfected.  I picked up a set of his dies second hand but being a machinist by trade, that wasn't enough - I had to make my own. I didn't stop with just the 22.  I made dies and bullets for 22, 24, 25, and 6.5 using rimfire cases.  I still have buckets of 22 mag cases folks saved me- probably never return to that interest but one never knows.  Ultra thin skinned jacketed bullets, bonded to the lead, with a primer cup partition gave amazing results on rodents.  Now I'm drifting.  From all that experimenting, I still have dies, I dabbled recently with some of these - instead of making the jacketed bullets I swaged some lead ones, changed the bottom punches and made heel punches.  I used a cannelure tool and rolled a knurl for lube. Not bad stuff but a well cast grooved, heeled bullet is a lot less work.  The ability to change length and weight swaging is something though.   

On Green Mountain's website a short time ago they had several twist rate barrels available... they were mostly 22 mag designated barrels, 1:10, 1:12, 1:14, 1:16 - priced right, yup, had to get more than few for the sake of science... guess where this is going.  A few starting to trickle in from Shilen too, some of their Ratchet Rifled with different twists... 

Here's sharing a picture of a couple actions going to be 22's There is a CF in the mix Huh not sure how that happened.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Breech seated 22 rimfire
Reply #39 - Oct 22nd, 2021 at 2:27pm
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Blindeye,
Been a member of this association for a number of years, when the current membership expires, plan to follow my norm and become a lifer, as I've done with several other shooting disciplines - As Laurie once stated to me, is there any whopping advantage to this? No, but that and annual donations tend to show commitment to the organization. 

With my current business operations I haven't been able to attend many of the sanctioned matches as that requires being gone from operations for more than a couple days - but that is fixing to change some.  I have participated in match's close to home, whether or not they are sanctioned I can't say.  It's on the list as things to do.  Am I going to campaign for a change, no.  Am I interested in coming up with a discipline or particular match for the directors to consider? Yes.  Maybe we name a 10 or 20 shot match, to be shot at 100 or 200 yards breech seating 22rf off the bench something like a Zika Match???  See what the response is?

  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Breech seated 22 rimfire
Reply #40 - Oct 23rd, 2021 at 10:40pm
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Is Cyle Miller still alive?  Dean and I did some fooling around with the 22Mag and a Jerry Barnett heel design bullet weighing around 65 grains.  Ours was based on getting new brass and about 6.5(?)gr of 4F GOEX.  Cyle may have some of the records from the old Chicken Coop.

Rich
  
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Re: Breech seated 22 rimfire
Reply #41 - Oct 24th, 2021 at 7:08pm
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Last I heard he is doing fine.
  
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Re: Breech seated 22 rimfire
Reply #42 - Oct 24th, 2021 at 7:44pm
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Is Cyle Miller still building rifles?
  

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Re: Breech seated 22 rimfire
Reply #43 - Oct 25th, 2021 at 9:34am
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Not that I’ve heard.
  
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