Thought you guys would like to see the results of a ladder test using a Hawkins-style custom .50cal caplock muzzleloader.  Other than shooting a deer with it last year the rifle has been hanging over the fireplace for at least 30 years.  I competed with it for a few years in the late ‘80’s.  Our silhouette club is holding a muzzleloader “turkey shoot” around Thanksgiving.  So I’m getting it ready.  I used 90grs of 3Fg for hunting but until now never attempted to determine the load the rifle prefers.  Based on the results 75grs seems to be the sweet spot.  I was amazed at the accuracy.

As noted, an 8X scope (Leatherwood vintage-style) was used for the test.  It will be removed since only iron sights are allowed for the turkey shoot.

Wayne

Yup, 75 grains seems to be the ideal load...

I read the article in Black Powder news and thought about trying it.  Seems like you need a scope and 200 yards to do it.  I wonder how well it will work with open sights?  I developed the load for my 54 caliber flintlock Hawken years ago using the old fashioned trial and error methods.   Ended up with 100 grains of FFFg under a .526 round ball.   I've used the same load for both target and hunting very successfully.  That load hits dead on at 100 yards, is 2" high at 25, and 3" high at 50 yards.   Since the 25 yard target was 4" and the 50 yard one 6,"  shooting at those three ranges was pretty simple.   Sights are non adjustable, primative, stights.

George

George Babits wrote on Sep 24^th, 2021 at 5:22pm:


George,
If using a BPC rifle I would agree that 200yds is the minimum when running a ladder test.  And yes, a good spotting scope to see the hits and at least a 10X rifle scope is needed - 15X to 25X would be better.  I've used 10X and more recently a 25X Lyman scope on my BPCRs when running a ladder test.

But 75yds or so is very adequate for a muzzleloader with an 8X or even a 6X rifle scope.  At that distance I doubt I could get any kind of measurable results using iron sights.  I had drilled/tapped & mounted a Leatherwood vintage style 8X scope on the rifle for hunting which made the test doable.

Wayne

westerner wrote on Sep 24^th, 2021 at 6:01pm:

There's a bit more to it than 10 shots, as you have been reading, but it can start narrowing down a load very quickly.

Part of the problem is that it was designed to work off of maximum pressure, where for concerns here it's more likely to be more of an arbitrary maximum velocity or pressure.

Tests like this are where the arguments start as to whether SD has the meaning that people like to attach to it at long distance.

If you're interested is checking if the system works, it would be worth it to do it with jacketed bullets marked as done in the linked article. It's pretty easy to have confidence when you walk up to a target and see multiple colors in the same group.

The problem with a single bullet test is that you might have three shots that found there place by accident. Until you repeat it and have repeatable results, it's questionable data.

I would spend some time with at 10 grain spread at another 50-100 yards out and see how it shakes out.

It's a great start and really shows how a lot of the stuff done with the modern long distance guys can be applied at shorter distances.

Not sure if this is one you read, Westerner, but Jason has written about this test a lot on Accurate Shooter. His articles are worth seeking out.

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I understand what you've done now Tex. So obvious I didn't get it.  Next session at a bench I'm going to try it. 

westerner wrote on Sep 24^th, 2021 at 7:42pm:


There is nothing new under the sun. Just find it different ways.

Looking for a wide charge weight/load that exits the barrel in the sweet spot of the vibration, isn’t much different than using a hammer to find out where to place a barrel sled. Maybe a bit more refined.

Some of these guys try and calculate down to the millisecond and get pretty close. Ultimately it still has to proven on paper.

It would interesting for arguments sake, to find the load, then run it over the chronograph, or Wayne to do that with his loads.

A high ES/SD at the right time, seems to beat a low ES/SD at the wrong time. Having both is when the chronograph comes into play.

To see this play out with a muzzle loader is a lot of fun.

My Hawken has peep sights. Better than a scope.