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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) re trying paper patching (Read 7250 times)
Mick B
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re trying paper patching
Sep 18th, 2021 at 9:01pm
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Out of boredom due to lockdown in the covid scare I intend to do  a little experimenting with paper patching ammo for my 40-60 Maynard. I tried PP in the past with a 45-90  but the results were not quite as good as I was getting with greasers so I gave the idea away. Soon I will be receiving a PP bullet mould acquired in a swap deal and the experiments will commence then.
Q # 1, I'm considering thinning out some SPG to a consistency similar to tooth paste, what is the best way to do this. I was thinking of adding olive oil till I get the right thickness. Would something like Ballistol be better ?, My plan was also to use this thinner SPG to rub onto the patching once it is dry.
Q # 2, I was reading something on PP and they mentioned twisting the patch and when the patch was dry cutting of the twisted tail so formed. In the past with my 45 I just folded it in around the base of the bullet leaving a flat surface, which is best ?.
The thinned out SPG is also going to be used to soak a felt over powder wad as well. Any help and advice would be appreciated.
Later when I get started I will have other questions but initially I intend to seat the bullet just inside the mouth of the case and use the camming action of the rifle to seat the patched bullet into the rifling, I may also try the bullet muzzle loaded so it will be patched to bore diameter, and be a slip fit in the barrel.
Mike.
  
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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: re trying paper patching
Reply #1 - Sep 19th, 2021 at 9:27am
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You might get a copy of Randy Wright’s book on making and shooting paper patch bullets.  This will give you a good overview of the basics.

There are more specific descriptions of paper patching and the results gained on the Shiloh Forum, the Historic Shooting Forum and the Cast Boolits Forum.  Mostly the caliber is .45, but a fair amount of .44 and .40 descriptions are there, if you are willing to look.  You have to compare the practices and results to winnow the techniques that often work from those that seldom do.

I have had success patching .44, .45, and (to some extent) .38 calibers.  My only .40 is the 3-1/4” shell, which has not only resisted my efforts so far at paper patch accuracy, but actually shoots better with smokeless powder than with black.

But what I’ve found that works includes:

An absolutely clean, absolutely dry bore between each shot.

An alloy between 8 and 12 BHN.

The patch wrapped onto the bullet dry, the patch to the ogive of the bullet with a slight length past the base.  This, when pushed flat against the base, will leave a small opening where you can see the lead.  The patched bullet should push smoothly down the bore of your rifle, leaving land marks on the patch.  The patched bullet will be a loose fit in your fireformed shell; I made a mouth-reduction die that allows the cartridge to be handled but the bullet is not crimped or tightly held.

No lubricant.  Grease wads are OK for follow up shots as the quarry is running away at hunting distances, but for me any lube anywhere has always compromised accuracy on targets.  Slathering lube or some kind of waterproofing preparation on the patch has always been a disaster for me; in the former case actually causing leading in the bore.

Swiss seems to work best for me in straight cases, Olde Eynsford in bottleneck cases.  Some people get the opposite results.

The rule of thumb seems to be (for me, anyway) “When in doubt, add more powder.”  When the charge is compressed (or not) and the wad seated, the bullet is typically 1/8” to 1/4” into the shell, although some people have success seating deeper.

And lots of experimental shooting.  Some people get spectacular results the first time out with their loads, some have to experiment for years.  When you get there, it’s pretty cool, and a lot more fun than shooting grease groove bullets.  Discovering lost shooting technology is like discovering any other lost treasure.  You feel like Indiana Jones and Frank Mayer combined.
  
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Mick B
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Re: re trying paper patching
Reply #2 - Sep 19th, 2021 at 8:40pm
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I have a book by Randolf  concerning loading and shooting but I can't find it at present, from memory there was some info on paper patching but the bulk of the book  was about general re loading, that's from my memory ( hardly reliable ).
As there are lots of ways to do PP bullets I will take your advice and have a look at the Shiloh site and possible the CBA site as well.                         
Mike.
  
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Mick B
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Re: re trying paper patching
Reply #3 - Sep 19th, 2021 at 11:14pm
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I have just spent quite some time on the cast bullets site looking at posts on paper patching. apart from some very good information provided there was a recommendation of a book by Paul Matthews on paper patching, can anybody tell me where I might gat a copy ?. There was some mention of a place called Amazon, but I don't know how that works as far as getting a copy goes. 
BACO lists another book by Randolph Wright on the same subject, anybody tried this book ?, I don't want to spend what's left of my life experimenting and re inventing the wheel.
Mike.
  
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BudHyett
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Re: re trying paper patching
Reply #4 - Sep 20th, 2021 at 12:22am
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The book is out-of-print. It is a good book, thorough and will give you a baseline. Search the Internet for a used copy, the prices go from $22.50 to $99.00.

The following website supports us bullet casters and has a good supply of tools and molds. (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  

Country boy from Illinois living in the magical Pacific Northwest
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Grumpy gumpy
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Re: re trying paper patching
Reply #5 - Sep 20th, 2021 at 12:28am
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Bunduki books in OZ has it may be cheaper overseas
Gumpy
  
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texasmac
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Re: re trying paper patching
Reply #6 - Sep 20th, 2021 at 1:42am
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A very good paper patch book is Loading and Shooting Paper Patched Bullets - A Beginner's Guide by Randolph S. Wright.

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Wayne
  

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Mick B
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Re: re trying paper patching
Reply #7 - Sep 20th, 2021 at 4:18am
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Thanks Wayne, I saw the book advertised in the BACO catalogue, I will try and see if they still have it.
Mike.
  
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Mick B
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Re: re trying paper patching
Reply #8 - Sep 20th, 2021 at 4:54am
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Gumpy
I tried Bunduki ten minutes ago and they had the Paul Matthews book listed, when I clicked on it I was informed it was out of stock.
As I believe the book is out of print I guess it won't be in stock ever again.
Mike.
  
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Grumpy gumpy
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Re: re trying paper patching
Reply #9 - Sep 20th, 2021 at 5:00am
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Mick B wrote on Sep 20th, 2021 at 4:54am:
Gumpy
I tried Bunduki ten minutes ago and they had the Paul Matthews book listed, when I clicked on it I was informed it was out of stock.
As I believe the book is out of print I guess it won't be in stock ever again.
Mike.

Bugger, I just went off the first page. I borrowed a copy from a gunsmith friend in NSW when I read it.
Gumpy 
  
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RSW
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Re: re trying paper patching
Reply #10 - Sep 20th, 2021 at 5:19pm
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Loading and Shooting Paper Patched Bullets - A Beginner's Guide
is available at Amazon.com
Just type the title in the search box and it will bring up my listing and perhaps a used copy or two - used books will likely be listed as Unavailable.

That book is also available from:
buffaloarms.com
blackpowderspg.com
tackofthewolfe.com
  

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Mick B
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Re: re trying paper patching
Reply #11 - Sep 20th, 2021 at 8:46pm
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Randy
I was contacted by a friend here in OZ and he has both books, yours and Pauls, when the current lockdown here ends he will loan them to me. I asked him which of the two books he thought was the best and he nominated yours. Hope that is some consolation for loosing a sale.
Cheers Mike.
  
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Re: re trying paper patching
Reply #12 - Sep 21st, 2021 at 12:17am
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I have both and both offer valuable information.  But If I had to choose only one it would be Mr. Wright's book.

Wayne
  

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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: re trying paper patching
Reply #13 - Sep 21st, 2021 at 7:40am
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I found Matthews’ books interesting reading, and a lot of the peripheral information valuable, but not very informative as instructions for getting target accuracy out of paper-patched bullets.  He bounces back and forth from bore diameter to groove diameter bullets, and from black powder to smokeless loadings, in a manner that leaves the reader (me, anyway) pretty confused.  He was mostly interested in getting pure-lead bullets into game animals, at the usual woods ranges, with the maximum effect.  What is pretty obvious from reading his stuff is that he never fired a single paper-patched bullet at a metal silhouette in a long career of BPCR match shooting.

It may be that all you want to do is amp the velocity of pure lead for the maximum terminal ballistics without leading the barrel.  In that case, Matthews’ books will do.  If you want to find out how to make them work they way the 1870s shooters did, Wright’s book is a better starting place.
  
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Mick B
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Re: re trying paper patching
Reply #14 - Sep 21st, 2021 at 8:59pm
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Bent Ramrod
Thanks for that info, I only shoot BP and was not looking for extra velocity, or killing power on game, I'm looking forward to reading both books when they finally get to me.
I have a few ideas on what to try but it has probably all been tried before and written about, like I said before I don't want to re invent the wheel. Reading the books will tell me if all my clever ideas have been tried before, and either failed or worked.
I'm not expecting better accuracy or extra velocity, just thought I would try it as being traditional appeals to me, I think the two cartridges I shoot both started out as PP rounds using BP.
Once I get this project up and running I will post my results, heck I might even write a book and get rich.
Catch you later.
Mike.
  
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