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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Looking for a Maximum Range Cartridge for 44 1/2 (Read 14255 times)
Sure shot
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Re: Looking for a Maximum Range Cartridge for 44 1/2
Reply #15 - Aug 3rd, 2021 at 12:44pm
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With a cartridge that is much larger diameter than the 38/55 class you’ll be pushing it due to the barrel shank size, also you may not be able to load it past the hammer. I have trouble enough loading my 44 1/2 38/55 with fixed ammo, getting past the hammer that is.
  
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Re: Looking for a Maximum Range Cartridge for 44 1/2
Reply #16 - Aug 3rd, 2021 at 1:42pm
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I'd go with 30-40 krag. Use a fast twist for heavy bullets. Not very traditional but could be good with appropriate amounts of smokeless powder.
  
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S99VG
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Re: Looking for a Maximum Range Cartridge for 44 1/2
Reply #17 - Aug 3rd, 2021 at 1:53pm
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oneatatime wrote on Aug 3rd, 2021 at 12:25pm:
I believe that shank size is going to be your limiting factor in a rifle cartridge in an original 44 1/2. The CPA Stevens was made larger to have a larger shank for cartridges in the 45-70 range.


That is how I understand it
  
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Re: Looking for a Maximum Range Cartridge for 44 1/2
Reply #18 - Aug 3rd, 2021 at 1:55pm
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Ranch13 wrote on Aug 3rd, 2021 at 12:26pm:
It 38-50 remington, easy enough to just run a reamer in the 38-55 chamber. Brass is formed out of 303 brit or 30-40 Krag


How do you figure it has an edge over the 38-55?  I am interested in knowing.  Is it increased case capacity?
  
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Re: Looking for a Maximum Range Cartridge for 44 1/2
Reply #19 - Aug 3rd, 2021 at 1:55pm
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Cat_Whisperer wrote on Aug 3rd, 2021 at 12:28pm:
blue sky thinking here:  what about the 9.3x74R?
good long heavy bullet.


Do tell me more!
  
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S99VG
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Re: Looking for a Maximum Range Cartridge for 44 1/2
Reply #20 - Aug 3rd, 2021 at 1:57pm
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Sure shot wrote on Aug 3rd, 2021 at 12:44pm:
With a cartridge that is much larger diameter than the 38/55 class you’ll be pushing it due to the barrel shank size, also you may not be able to load it past the hammer. I have trouble enough loading my 44 1/2 38/55 with fixed ammo, getting past the hammer that is.


Yeah, the hammer does seem to be a problem and I guess CPA's improved hammer will not fit an original 44 1/2 action.
  
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S99VG
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Re: Looking for a Maximum Range Cartridge for 44 1/2
Reply #21 - Aug 3rd, 2021 at 1:59pm
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jimmy wrote on Aug 3rd, 2021 at 1:42pm:
I'd go with 30-40 krag. Use a fast twist for heavy bullets. Not very traditional but could be good with appropriate amounts of smokeless powder.


I've thought about this or even blowing the Krag case out to 35-cal.  Maybe not "traditional" but most certainly available and doable "back in the day."
  
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Re: Looking for a Maximum Range Cartridge for 44 1/2
Reply #22 - Aug 3rd, 2021 at 3:23pm
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S99VG,
Yes, the 38-50 is an old BP days Remington cartridge
that can be formed easily by necking up/blowing out 30-40 Krag brass to 38 cal.
It has about 10+ percent greater case capacity than the 38-55
BMW (Ballard-Marlin-Win) case though it is only a bit larger in diameter. I found it to be a very well balanced 38 cal ctg. Easy load development. As said above, I am shooting my 360 gr DDEPP
Dual diameter paper patch bullet clocking 1370fps. It also shoots a little brother 345 gr DDEPP as well.
I will see if I can get a PIC to post here.
beltfed/arnie
  
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S99VG
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Re: Looking for a Maximum Range Cartridge for 44 1/2
Reply #23 - Aug 3rd, 2021 at 4:39pm
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beltfed wrote on Aug 3rd, 2021 at 3:23pm:
S99VG,
Yes, the 38-50 is an old BP days Remington cartridge
that can be formed easily by necking up/blowing out 30-40 Krag brass to 38 cal.
It has about 10+ percent greater case capacity than the 38-55
BMW (Ballard-Marlin-Win) case though it is only a bit larger in diameter. I found it to be a very well balanced 38 cal ctg. Easy load development. As said above, I am shooting my 360 gr DDEPP
Dual diameter paper patch bullet clocking 1370fps. It also shoots a little brother 345 gr DDEPP as well.
I will see if I can get a PIC to post here.
beltfed/arnie


There are two limiting factors for the original 44 1/2 I’ve come to learn.  One is the diameter of the barrel shank and the other is hammer clearance.  So, I guess the $64K question is does the barrel shank have sufficient diameter for a modified Krag case and will that case clear the hammer for loading and extraction?
  
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Re: Looking for a Maximum Range Cartridge for 44 1/2
Reply #24 - Aug 3rd, 2021 at 4:41pm
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S99VG wrote on Aug 3rd, 2021 at 12:13pm:
gnoahhh wrote on Aug 3rd, 2021 at 12:10pm:
Would a .40-63 (.40-70) Ballard work in this instance?


I'll ask Gail!


Gail said no.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Looking for a Maximum Range Cartridge for 44 1/2
Reply #25 - Aug 3rd, 2021 at 4:55pm
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The 30-30 family (32-40, 30-30, 32 Win Spcl, 38-55) base diameter is .422. The 30-40/303 base (and 38-50 Rem Hepburn) diameter is .457-.460. The 9.3x74R base diameter is .4685 and the 45-70 family (etc., etc.) is .505. The larger the base, the thinner the steel in the barrel shank. The largest cartridge listed for the 44 1/2 in the contemporary (circa 1912) Stevens catalog was 32-40 although if you ordered a Pope barrel you also had a choice of Pope's 33-47 target cartridge. The action is very strong, if you respect the shank size. What would a 40/30-30 look like?
  
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Re: Looking for a Maximum Range Cartridge for 44 1/2
Reply #26 - Aug 3rd, 2021 at 5:21pm
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oneatatime wrote on Aug 3rd, 2021 at 4:55pm:
The 30-30 family (32-40, 30-30, 32 Win Spcl, 38-55) base diameter is .422. The 30-40/303 base (and 38-50 Rem Hepburn) diameter is .457-.460. The 9.3x74R base diameter is .4685 and the 45-70 family (etc., etc.) is .505. The larger the base, the thinner the steel in the barrel shank. The largest cartridge listed for the 44 1/2 in the contemporary (circa 1912) Stevens catalog was 32-40 although if you ordered a Pope barrel you also had a choice of Pope's 33-47 target cartridge. The action is very strong, if you respect the shank size. What would a 40/30-30 look like?


So the rule of thumb as I know it is to not exceed the physical dimensions of a 38-55.  And if that is the case then I have to difficulty in saying “so be it.”
  
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Re: Looking for a Maximum Range Cartridge for 44 1/2
Reply #27 - Aug 3rd, 2021 at 6:13pm
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No, it is not to exceed the base diameter of the 30-30 family. Again what would a 40/30-30 look like? 
Or better a 40/32-40 - the 2.10 32-40 case blown out straight to a 40.
« Last Edit: Aug 3rd, 2021 at 6:22pm by oneatatime »  
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Re: Looking for a Maximum Range Cartridge for 44 1/2
Reply #28 - Aug 3rd, 2021 at 6:21pm
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oneatatime wrote on Aug 3rd, 2021 at 6:13pm:
No, it is not to exceed the base diameter of the 30-30 family. Again what would a 40/30-30 look like?


If you are asking what a 30-30 would look like opened up to 40 then I'd have to say a lot like a 38-55, just a little bigger.  Are you suggesting a 30-30 opened up to 40 caliber? 
  
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Re: Looking for a Maximum Range Cartridge for 44 1/2
Reply #29 - Aug 3rd, 2021 at 6:23pm
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Better the longer 32-40 blown out straight to 40, probably the old .406 40. The 303 Savage has a base diameter of .442 vs .422 for the 30-30 family.
  
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