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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Badger .40 barrel with 1:18 twist (Read 4263 times)
BillOregon
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Badger .40 barrel with 1:18 twist
Aug 1st, 2021 at 8:06am
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I found this new/old stock barrel, 30 inches, and was thinking of having it fitted to a Swedish 67/89 rolling block action and chambering to .40-70 straight. But I am wondering just how heavy a bullet I could shoot accurately at distance in what is a relatively slow twist for .40. Any thoughts, gentlemen?
  
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beltfed
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Re: Badger .40 barrel with 1:18 twist
Reply #1 - Aug 1st, 2021 at 9:08am
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Bill,
You would have to use a bullet that is no LONGER than
1.25" long for full stability in the 18 twist barrel. 
The Length is the most important factor regarding stability.
The weight "just comes along for the ride". 
A friend has been campaigning his 18 twist 40-65 with a 1.25" long, 380 grain DualDiameterPaperPatch bullet in BPCR Silhouette matches for a couple years with success. They shoot out to 500 meters. This is his most accurate BPCR rifle. 

On the other hand, if I were to build another 40 cal rifle, I would use a 14 twist barrel for most universal use, especially if a person wanted to shoot long range as in 8,9,1000yds.
beltfed/arnie
« Last Edit: Aug 1st, 2021 at 9:13am by beltfed »  
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George Babits
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Re: Badger .40 barrel with 1:18 twist
Reply #2 - Aug 1st, 2021 at 9:43am
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The "original" twist for the 40-70 was usually  1 in 20  and the load useda 330 grain bullet (Barnes).   My original Sharps in 40-70 has a 1 in 20 twist and so does my mid- 1980's Shiloh.   I shoot a 370 grain bullet in the original and a 335 grain slug in the Shiloh.   Both do very well.   Weight is a direct function of length and I've never seen any loading data listing loads for bullet lenght, it is always the weight.   Keeps things simpler.   

George
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Badger .40 barrel with 1:18 twist
Reply #3 - Aug 1st, 2021 at 10:03am
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I agree that the 1:18" twist is likely going to work best with bullets under 400 grs., and I've had great results with the RCBS CSA 350 gr. in my .40-70 Ballard, and .40-85 Ballard rifles with old slow twist barrels.
I am not sure there's any advantage with a 14" twist over a 16" twist myself. Having owned two rifles in the exact same .40-65, and both with Green Mountain barrels in each twist rate. Both being built on Rolling Block actions.
I couldn't see any difference in accuracy at 1000 yds., when trying a variety of bullets from the 350-420 gr. weight sizes. Putting them on paper to get a better idea of which was better, neither shot smaller groups over the other.
  

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JLouis
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Re: Badger .40 barrel with 1:18 twist
Reply #4 - Aug 1st, 2021 at 10:47am
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" Weight is a direct function of length. "

Length is a direct function to a bullets stability based on the twist rate. If no load data can be found the rule of thumb is max length should be no more than three times the groove diameter. Weight is along for the ride as Beltfed pointed out.
  

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oneatatime
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Re: Badger .40 barrel with 1:18 twist
Reply #5 - Aug 1st, 2021 at 12:59pm
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I had to drop down to the 370 grain Saeco (#640) to get good results in my 18 twist 40-60.
  
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westerner
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Re: Badger .40 barrel with 1:18 twist
Reply #6 - Aug 1st, 2021 at 5:20pm
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Myself Ron Long and many others have used 18 twist out to one thousand yards successfully. I use a 20 twist out to 500 meters now with no problem. 

Maybe physics is different in different areas or maybe it's not the same as it use to be?   Huh   



  

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BillOregon
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Re: Badger .40 barrel with 1:18 twist
Reply #7 - Aug 1st, 2021 at 5:45pm
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Thanks fellas. 
Westerner, can you tell me what bullets have performed well for you in a 1:18 barrel to 1,000 yards?
  
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westerner
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Re: Badger .40 barrel with 1:18 twist
Reply #8 - Aug 1st, 2021 at 5:56pm
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Ron Long tapered spitzer at about 400 gr. Also his tapered bore rider at 400 gr.

  

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JLouis
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Re: Badger .40 barrel with 1:18 twist
Reply #9 - Aug 1st, 2021 at 7:05pm
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Area of Sea Level and Altitude of Density can also play its own part.
  

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George Babits
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Re: Badger .40 barrel with 1:18 twist
Reply #10 - Aug 1st, 2021 at 8:44pm
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Oh yes;  and the ambient air temperature as well as the relative humidity.   And, then we always have to remember to hold our mouth the same was as well.

To hell with the minute details.  Go out and have a good time.  Forget about all the numbers.   There is no substitute for a lot of shooting.

George
  
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JLouis
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Re: Badger .40 barrel with 1:18 twist
Reply #11 - Aug 1st, 2021 at 10:12pm
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Totally agree if you are not up to serious competition none of it really matters anyway!
  

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Re: Badger .40 barrel with 1:18 twist
Reply #12 - Aug 1st, 2021 at 11:21pm
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George Babits wrote on Aug 1st, 2021 at 8:44pm:
Oh yes;  and the ambient air temperature as well as the relative humidity.   And, then we always have to remember to hold our mouth the same was as well.

To hell with the minute details.  Go out and have a good time.  Forget about all the numbers.   There is no substitute for a lot of shooting.

George

Don’t forget the gravitational effects of the sun and moon as well as the coriolis effect 
Gumpy 
  
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GT
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Re: Badger .40 barrel with 1:18 twist
Reply #13 - Aug 2nd, 2021 at 12:02am
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Bill,
I've been dabbling in the 40 calibers lately.  I have a Hepburn I built with a 1:18 twist 40-82 Win and never had an issue with the build at a 1000 yds. the problem is always the guy jerking the trigger. 
I recently built a 40-70SS  with a 1:16 twist - as I mentioned in a recent post - used it in a mile match.  The wind messed with me some but it wasn't bullet instability so much.   
I've attached a PDF with stability calculations using Miller's formula.  Both bullets are longer than most use.  One is from a Baco GG mold and the longer is from one of mine - a paper patch mold.  The first two are calculations for a 1:16 and the second two are for a 1:18.  All of them are well within the recommended numbers. 
my 2¢
Greg
  
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BillOregon
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Re: Badger .40 barrel with 1:18 twist
Reply #14 - Aug 2nd, 2021 at 7:18am
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Again, thanks fellas. GT, the "stability rating" in the PDF you attached -- I assume the higher the number the more stable the projectile. What is optimum?
  
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