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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How do you value relined barrels. (Read 7423 times)
JLouis
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #15 - Jul 31st, 2021 at 11:31pm
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It all actually boils down to what is that you want to do and it really doesn't have anything to do with any of us. 
You own it, its yours so do whatever it is that you would like to do for you to be able to take it out and to fully enjoy it.
  
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #16 - Aug 1st, 2021 at 1:11am
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marlinguy wrote on Jul 31st, 2021 at 10:00pm:
What is a historical gun, and what makes it significant? We all know that old guns owned by famous people are valuable, but only if you can 100% document the provenance. If it's sketchy, then it's just a good story.
  Same goes for guns built by renowned gunsmiths. Sometimes very easy to document, because they're well marked, and the rifling systems used are easily identified by examination.
But then there's those guns that might only have historical provenance within a certain region. They're not as valuable to the whole collector genre, but they too should be saved if at all possible, if they have any historical significance that's documented. I own several guns of this sort, and I personally think they have great value. Maybe not great monetary value, but the owners have wonderful history, and I've documented it well. 
One is a Ballard given to a Lt. Charles Phillips by his men. Phillips was an 1883 West Point graduate, who later went on to rise to the rank of Brigadier General, and served 43 years in the Army. To me that makes him an extraordinary person, and his gun is also.
The other I bought to get the Rolling Block receiver, as the gun was pretty sad shape. I bought it at one of the Big Reno gun shows for a couple hundred dollars, and when I began to strip it down I discovered the owner's name under the forearm, stamped into the barrel. He turned out to be an early Oregon Territory pioneer, whose father was significant in settling Oregon, and the owner was very active in early Oregon statehood, and a mayor of Oregon City, Or. during WWI. Now that doesn't rise to the rank of a nationally known figure, but it to me made the gun too important to disassemble for parts. So it got a rehabilitation, and not a restoration, to save as much of the original gun as possible. It has a wonderful bore, but if it hadn't, I would still not have changed the barrel in any way.
So to me big names might make a gun more valuable. But even regionally historical names, or names with wonderful history, make many guns well worth sparing from a total restoration, or even a reline.


And to that if I were TR I'd say "Bully!"
  
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marlinguy
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #17 - Aug 1st, 2021 at 10:14am
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JLouis wrote on Jul 31st, 2021 at 11:31pm:
It all actually boils down to what is that you want to do and it really doesn't have anything to do with any of us. 
You own it, its yours so do whatever it is that you would like to do for you to be able to take it out and to fully enjoy it.


I have a different view John. I think the fact a gun is in our possession doesn't make it OK to do whatever we want to it, simply because we own it. 
I personally feel we have a responsibility to care for old guns in a way that retains their history, if the gun has any. It may be fine to do whatever we want with a gun that's been poorly maintained, or has very little historical, or monetary value. But as responsible gun owners we are simply caretakers, and as such should try to do what's right for the gun, and for future generations.
I sure don't want to think that in the future someone will look at something I once owned and say, "What kind of an idiot would do this to a fine old single shot rifle?" 
  
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S99VG
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #18 - Aug 1st, 2021 at 3:02pm
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I too think we have a responsibility to history, which as previously stated amounts to much more than the big names and dates of the past. I can't see how anyone in this hobby could see it differently as it pretty much centers around artifacts and information from our ancestors in shooting - so I assume we all have some appreciation for history less we would be spending or time, energy, focus and money on "black guns."  Though I see a function in the presrvation and conservation of "historical" firearms I too see a utlity in restoration.  When a Stevens, Winchester or Ballard has reached the end of it's line as a shooter but has "good bones", it can be put out to pasture as a wall hanger or brought back to life with a careful restoration.  And as I said above, I think the act of restoration can too pay respect to the past if the work is kept consistent with how the firearm would have looked and been used "back in the day."  Of course when we attach Feckers, Litscherts and Unertls to many of those rifles we are taking some liberty with history as that technology would not have came into play for another genertation of two after those guns were introduced - so in doing I like to borrow a term from the car guys and call it a "resto mod."  As for how I would classify a firearm "historical"?  I would first take into consideration it's condition.  Any rifle from the past that is in excelent condition to me "has" history for the information it possesses, regardless of it being owned by the likes of a Teddy Roosevelt, Townsend Whelen or a Joseph T. Average.  And since I have more in common with that last guy it isn't too difficult understading what "turns my screws" when it comes to firearms of the past.    
« Last Edit: Aug 1st, 2021 at 3:13pm by S99VG »  
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JLouis
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #19 - Aug 1st, 2021 at 3:56pm
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Vall don't take what I am trying to point out of context. I believe you have restored more than one of your rifles with new barrels.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #20 - Aug 1st, 2021 at 9:18pm
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JLouis wrote on Aug 1st, 2021 at 3:56pm:
Vall don't take what I am trying to point out of context. I believe you have restored more than one of your rifles with new barrels.


I don't believe I took what you said out of context John? 

I have restored and rebarreled more than one old gun. And in every case they were either total wrecks, or had already been rebarreled, or had damaged barrels. I'd hardly say that if someone took an old .30 caliber barrel and turned it down to stuff into a Ballard to use as a liner, that I was doing anything wrong by putting that particular gun back as it left the factory?
Nor would I say rebarreling a Ballard that some idiot drilled a scope mounting hole into the chamber as ruining the gun by replacing that barrel.

My point was that the "it's your gun, do what you want" attitude is not always what's best for the gun, and it's history. I don't see things that way on every gun. So take that for whatever it's worth. It's simply my opinion, and you can do what you please.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #21 - Aug 1st, 2021 at 9:33pm
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S99VG wrote on Aug 1st, 2021 at 3:02pm:
  Of course when we attach Feckers, Litscherts and Unertls to many of those rifles we are taking some liberty with history as that technology would not have came into play for another generation or two... 


That's brings up another related topic, which also needs to be considered. Those guns modified from the way they left the factory. If we consider any modification as bad, then we'd be culling all the fine target rifles that were modified by the famous makers who put new barrels, and stocks on old single shots to make them fantastic guns.
And there's the era that scopes became hugely popular, and many fine old target rifles got fitted with scopes too. Those period scopes added in the later years are accepted modifications in many cases. And some old scopes have become extremely collectible on their own. Not just the very expensive Malcolm and Unertl scopes, but even lower priced scopes of the external adjustment type. 
I remember a time when collectors and sellers would deduct money for extra scope holes in a barrel of an old gun. But I've watched that gradually change, and it's far more accepted today. Even more so if the holes have bases, and a nice old scope is still with the gun!
I have a good friend who only collects old single shot rifles with scopes on them. His collection of scoped single shot rifles is jaw dropping, and I don't see anyone whose ever seen his display who thought the scoped guns shouldn't have been done.
There's even a number of collectors today who look at 40's and 50's varmint rifles built on old single shots, and say if they're well done that type of build should be preserved for what they are. They don't interest me a lot, but I have an 1885 High wall with a .219 Ackley Improved barrel, and I wont be changing it to something more traditional for the antique action. And it has a 20x Super Targetspot on it too, which is pretty correct for a High Wall varmint caliber barrel.
  
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JLouis
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #22 - Aug 1st, 2021 at 10:32pm
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" My point was that the "it's your gun, do what you want" attitude is not always what's best for the gun, and it's history. "
But that is also exactly what you have been doing including new stocks, case coloring, new barrels and etc. So it brings up what I was trying to point out and that is it is OK for just a few self chosen folks yet they continue to condemn other's for wanting to do basically exactly the same?
  
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marlinguy
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #23 - Aug 2nd, 2021 at 2:01pm
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JLouis wrote on Aug 1st, 2021 at 10:32pm:
" My point was that the "it's your gun, do what you want" attitude is not always what's best for the gun, and it's history. "
But that is also exactly what you have been doing including new stocks, case coloring, new barrels and etc. So it brings up what I was trying to point out and that is it is OK for just a few self chosen folks yet they continue to condemn other's for wanting to do basically exactly the same?


John, it seems you're the one taking things out of context here. I said right from the beginning that the "do what you want" didn't always apply. I did not say it never applied, nor did I say it always applied. And I certainly didn't say I never restored any guns.
I doubt if I took the time to list every gun I've purchased because it's had issues, from someone hot bluing a color cased receiver, to adding numerous dovetails to barrels, or butchering the wood, that anyone else would say what I did to save these butchered guns was doing any historical harm. But it seems you want to.
Should I have left them as they were? Are you now contradicting your own statement just because I have a different point of view than you do?
Sorry if I stepped on your toes by stating that not all guns should be reworked simply because they're "yours". But it seems to have irritated you enough for you to try to make something more out of what I've done to save old single shots. Please enlighten me about which guns I've altered that decreased their value?
I've been very selective about what was done, how much was done, and always to try to make those old guns closer to what is correct. If you want to attack me for doing so, then I'll accept  that.
  
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #24 - Aug 2nd, 2021 at 3:58pm
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Wow slow down Vall I never suggested the butchering of any firearms was OK to do.  But to do the same as you have done and if one needs new wood, case coloring or a new barrel we are actually on the same page. My comment about it is yours to do whatever you want with it is in reference to doing the same type of above work and not needing anyone's blessings prior too.
You haven't stepped on my toes I was just not sure how the OP might feel after reading all of the comments.   
  
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #25 - Aug 2nd, 2021 at 4:57pm
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JLouis wrote on Aug 2nd, 2021 at 3:58pm:
Wow slow down Vall I never suggested the butchering of any firearms was OK to do.  But to do the same as you have done and if one needs new wood, case coloring or a new barrel we are actually on the same page. My comment about it is yours to do whatever you want with it is in reference to doing the same type of above work and not needing anyone's blessings prior too.
You haven't stepped on my toes I was just not sure how the OP might feel after reading all of the comments.   


Well hopefully the discussion of what is acceptable, or is not good practice will help everyone understand why some projects need to be addressed differently than others, and not apply a blanket approach to everything.
If I buy a barreled action, and build up original syle stocks for it, that's one thing. If I buy an action, and put a barrel and stocks on it, then what harm was done? Of course what contour, caliber, and length of barrel is unknown, so I have to guess at what's traditional, and try to make the gun something that looks correct. The option is to not save that action at all, or build it up in some incorrect caliber the gun was never chambered in.
I try my best to do what's right for the firearm, vs. just doing what I want and not making it traditional.
  
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #26 - Aug 2nd, 2021 at 6:26pm
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Vall you have done an outstanding job of bringing old worn out Rifles back to their per-say original life. Are they still original no but does that really matter. Not at all as far as I am concerned its just about trying to do the right thing as you have and been doing yourself.
  
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #27 - Aug 3rd, 2021 at 11:22pm
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They are only original ONCE. Cry
  
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #28 - Aug 4th, 2021 at 12:28am
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My lined target rifle used to be a beautiful but worthless for target shooting target rifle.
Now it is a beautiful useful match winning target rifle.   Smiley
My lined rifles value has gone way way up. 

One of these days I wouldn't mind attaching a scope to it to see just how accurate it really is.

The muzzle.
  
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #29 - Aug 4th, 2021 at 10:34am
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Very well put ssdave and thank you for taking the time to share it with us.
  
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