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How do you value relined barrels.
Jul 26th, 2021 at 12:48pm
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My guns are all shooters and I like rifles that have been relined to shoot available ammo particularly the many 32 rim fire single shots relined to 22lr. How do you view or value this alteration for function? Does it destroy value or increase value?
  
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1isenough
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #1 - Jul 26th, 2021 at 1:35pm
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I will offer a contrarian viewpoint.  I have about 20 lined barrels I have made, for four single shot actions.  I did not do them for "value", I did them for the unique cartridge options they offered, and the modest cost.  Glad for every one I have.  No idea what they will sell for after I quit shooting.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #2 - Jul 26th, 2021 at 2:08pm
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Here's what I see at most gun shows about the values of various collector firearms. Originals with bores in shootable condition will always bring the highest prices. Originals with poor bores always bring the least value, and many collectors will simply not buy those with poor bores, unless they're extremely rare guns.
A relined collector guns, with a good liner, properly installed will have decreased value, but usually not more than about 15-20% less than the all original bore equal rifle.
People who want to shoot their collectable rifles will always prefer a good relined bore to a junk bore.
  

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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #3 - Jul 26th, 2021 at 8:42pm
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Well said, Vall
  
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #4 - Jul 26th, 2021 at 11:45pm
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There’s also the matter of relative liquidity.

Finding the discriminating collector who insists on original condition but regards a shot-out barrel as “honest wear” and is still willing to pay top dollar might be a tougher search than finding someone willing to pay a little less for a “shooter” in otherwise original condition.  The wait to find this person might be somewhat more entertaining if you can shoot your collector’s item while the search goes on.

If the barrel is shootable, I generally won’t reline it.  Every gun doesn’t have to be a target rifle.  But if the bore is a sewer pipe, I’ll reline it.  I’ll try to reproduce the original caliber, unless ammunition is unobtainable and/or of no particular interest.
  
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #5 - Jul 27th, 2021 at 12:29am
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I have one rifle with a liner in it. It is a target rifle and it is now very accurate.

Glad I had it done. Worth more now in my opinion. A target rifle with a bad original bore aint worth much.
  

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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #6 - Jul 27th, 2021 at 9:55am
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I haven't been long in the single shot biz but I have been involved with a variety of other firearms for decades.  I think marlinnguy hit the nail on the head. An original rifle in factory condition will always comand the highest price but when seen from a practical standpoint these guns are getting very old and finding one with a relined barrel, to me, seems like an ever increasing proposition when shopping for a good rifle these days.  To take this one step further, how about the value of a replacement barrel?  There certainly were gunsmiths of merit in the past who's barrels add considerable value to the price of a rifle.  Pope comes to mind as the king of that hill.  But how about barrels from contemporary outfits like CPA?  Does a Shuttleworth marked barrel command a certain value?  And to bring this full circle how about barrels with respected liners like TJ.  Do they, or will they some day command higher values because of their quality?  I agree they obviously do today, but if this hobby of ours doesn't fall off the edge of the world in the decades to come will they develop their own sense of value?  Maybe something akin to the respected barrel makers of the past?  I think there's a good possibilty for future gun guys to see it that way.

PS - but who knows.  In the future we may be installing barrels of outstanding accuracy that are popped out of 3D printers.  I think that technology will be a drop dead game changer for manufacturing in the years to come.
« Last Edit: Jul 27th, 2021 at 10:19am by S99VG »  
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #7 - Jul 27th, 2021 at 10:16am
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Unless it can be proven that a relined barrel was done by a respected installer, it's worth less to me than a rifle with a bad bore. If I have the chance to shoot it first or see targets from someone I trust different story.

The collector value is lowered, it's not a proven shooter and it's more work to correct a project gone wrong than to do it right the first time.

Not high on my list of chances I like to take. Pay accordingly.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #8 - Jul 27th, 2021 at 10:32am
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S99VG wrote on Jul 27th, 2021 at 9:55am:
  To take this one step further, how about the value of a replacement barrel?  There certainly were gunsmiths of merit in the past who's barrels add considerable value to the price of a rifle.  Pope comes to mind as the king of that hill.  But how about barrels from contemporary outfits like CPA?  Does a Shuttleworth marked barrel command a certain value?  And to bring this full circle how about barrels with respected liners like TJ.  Do they, or will they some day command higher values because of their quality?  



From a collector standpoint, any rebarreled gun will have lower value, unless it was rebarreled by someone famous and highly regarded. A Pope, Schoyen, etc. will bring significantly greater values, and often more than the equal gun with original barrel. But as fine as some of our modern barrel makers are, not many will bring huge increases in value, although a few might at least hold their value to those who want a very accurate rifle to compete with.
I guess there are relined barrels that might be questionable, but the work done when relining a barrel often shows a poor quality installation if it's not done right. Every relined barrel I've owned that appeared to be an exceptional installation, all seemed to shoot very good, and certainly much better than a sewer pipe bore. So I'll take a relined barrel over a sewer pipe barrel, if the installation looks good.
There is one exception to the relined barrels, and that also pertains to those fine old barrels done by the same custom barrel makers like Pope, Schoyen, Zischang, Peterson, etc. If their markings are on the barrel, but it's been relined, or it's a bad bore, then all the value added by their name being on the barrel is pretty much gone. These guns are highly regarded for the barrels they have, so not having the original bore is going to kill that added value.
  

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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #9 - Jul 27th, 2021 at 11:50am
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" These guns are highly regarded for the barrels they have. "

So true all of the value is in the original barrels themselves and not the Rifles they have been installed on. 
Liners do have a rightful place but if a barrel can be re-cut it is by far a better option. An example being a 32-40 being re-cut to a 33-47 as was often being done in the past for continued competitive use. 

  

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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #10 - Jul 28th, 2021 at 2:07am
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I have a couple of rifles that I’ve relined the barrels, they took useless firearms and made them useable, one is a Winchester 92 baby saddle ring carbine, which is supposedly a rare rifle, but one that had a rusted out barrel and broken stock( mostly missing), but at least now I can use it.
Gumpy
  
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #11 - Jul 28th, 2021 at 10:18am
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I've tossed this question about in my head also.  I'm much more of a shooter than a collector. But I've collected quite a few vintage guns to satisfy my shooting desires.  As some of you know I'm, particularly fond of #2 Remington rolling blocks. I had John Taylor reline a very late, worn out .22cal #2 rifle and its a tack driver now.  Many years ago I had Redman's reline a #4 for my son.  Both were expertly done and I'm very happy with them.

I recently I acquired this very early #2 rifle in .32 XL rimfire.
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I loaded up some rounds and took it to the range where I found  the worn out bore was scattering bullets - but not surprised.  Because this is a very early rifle with the rare and rather poorly designed knife blade extractor, I've debated the idea of having it relined.  I have two other .32 caliber #2 rifles, so its not like I need this one relined to have a good shooter. Because of it is early and unusual, I think I'll leave this one alone.
  
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #12 - Jul 28th, 2021 at 10:50am
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I have a few extremely rare guns with less than perfect bores, but they're staying that way. They don't shoot horrible, but they certainly would shoot much better with a new barrel, or a relined barrel. But then they wouldn't be 100% original ever again.
I do everything possible to clean, and try to get an ugly bore shootable again. In some cases they've become very decent shooters, and I was pleased I tried cleaning them up instead of giving up and having them remain poor, or relining them. 
I always take the gun's condition, and rarity into consideration first, before deciding what to do with the bore. Many guys have enough guns to shoot that it's not the end of the world if they don't all shoot with target rifle accuracy. So I think sometimes it's better to leave them alone if they're not sewer pipe bores.
  

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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #13 - Jul 31st, 2021 at 6:55pm
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I think all things mechanical, guns included, become nothing more than scrap if left in a state of neglect or "used into the ground."  But somewhere just before that condition there is a threshold at which a decision needs to be made to either restore, stabilize or let go.  What's meant by restore is obvious and the owner will take that as far as he or she wants.  Stabilization just means to conserve or to freeze the object in that state as an artifact.  Some artifacts are historical and in my opinion should never be resotred or left to go to scrap.  Given that, there are lots of other firearms I might be tempted to restore as with my budget it is not very likely that a historical piece will come falling out of the heavens to land on my lap.  I would restore a Stevens 44 or 44 1/2 or a High/Low Wall if they represented nothing more than an average example of either.  Might not do so if the gun was owned by somebody like TR or Townsend Wheland.  And don't get me wrong.  Somewhere along the line the artifacts of Joe Average deserve conservation too because that's what I and most my family and acquatences are and ever will be.  So with a TR or TW and maybe even one JA gun I would not restore.  But I probably would with most Joe Average guns.  And with those guns goes the question of relining.  And yes, they would get relined if needed as keeping the guns of Mr. Average up and running may be an honest form of tribute unto itself and to what most of us represent. 
« Last Edit: Aug 1st, 2021 at 1:14am by S99VG »  
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Re: How do you value relined barrels.
Reply #14 - Jul 31st, 2021 at 10:00pm
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What is a historical gun, and what makes it significant? We all know that old guns owned by famous people are valuable, but only if you can 100% document the provenance. If it's sketchy, then it's just a good story.
  Same goes for guns built by renowned gunsmiths. Sometimes very easy to document, because they're well marked, and the rifling systems used are easily identified by examination.
But then there's those guns that might only have historical provenance within a certain region. They're not as valuable to the whole collector genre, but they too should be saved if at all possible, if they have any historical significance that's documented. I own several guns of this sort, and I personally think they have great value. Maybe not great monetary value, but the owners have wonderful history, and I've documented it well. 
One is a Ballard given to a Lt. Charles Phillips by his men. Phillips was an 1883 West Point graduate, who later went on to rise to the rank of Brigadier General, and served 43 years in the Army. To me that makes him an extraordinary person, and his gun is also.
The other I bought to get the Rolling Block receiver, as the gun was pretty sad shape. I bought it at one of the Big Reno gun shows for a couple hundred dollars, and when I began to strip it down I discovered the owner's name under the forearm, stamped into the barrel. He turned out to be an early Oregon Territory pioneer, whose father was significant in settling Oregon, and the owner was very active in early Oregon statehood, and a mayor of Oregon City, Or. during WWI. Now that doesn't rise to the rank of a nationally known figure, but it to me made the gun too important to disassemble for parts. So it got a rehabilitation, and not a restoration, to save as much of the original gun as possible. It has a wonderful bore, but if it hadn't, I would still not have changed the barrel in any way.
So to me big names might make a gun more valuable. But even regionally historical names, or names with wonderful history, make many guns well worth sparing from a total restoration, or even a reline.
  

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