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Breech seating lessons (Read 5961 times)

Red Cent Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 316 Location: Benton, KY byway of WV, VA, NC Joined: Dec 25^th, 2016	Breech seating lessons Jun 21^st, 2021 at 8:27pm	Print Post
	Reading through the posts on the "Winning Benchrest Scores By The Top Shooters", I noticed this: "getting a rifle shooting, competitively as regards the breech seating depth, using the old Ron Long way of doing it. That was for reference only, I now use the Russ Weber method and it seems to produce better scores." Is there a place to read about the two methods?

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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 4134 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: Breech seating lessons Reply #1 - Jun 21^st, 2021 at 8:57pm	Print Post
	I used the Russ Weber procedure.


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rkaires Frequent Elocutionist Offline No Stronger Bond Posts: 1650 Location: Dingmans Ferry, PA Joined: Oct 26^th, 2012	Re: Breech seating lessons Reply #2 - Jun 22^nd, 2021 at 2:43pm	Print Post
	What is the Russ Weber procedure? Thanks, Bob

	ASSRA #11031 NRA Life Proud Noodlehead "Peace is that brief, glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading."~ ~ Thomas Jefferson
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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 4134 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: Breech seating lessons Reply #3 - Jun 22^nd, 2021 at 5:43pm	Print Post
	Every rifle has a different length of taper and degree of taper so you need to determine how far in you need to seat the bullet so the bullet base is properly sealed to prevent gases cutting around the base. Russ Weber system to determine the MINIMUM seating depth was: 1. Take a sized bullet and gently drop the base of the bullet into the throat of the barrel until it stops against the lands. (That is correct you are inserting the bullet backwards). 2. Measure the distance from the back edge of the barrel inwards to the tip of the bullet in the barrel. 3. The measured distance plus the length of the bullet is the minimum distance the base of the bullet needs to be inserted into the barrel. 4. Set your bullet plunger to push the bullet in this distance. i.e. distance from case rim to extended plunger should equal the minimum distance you have determined. 5. Insert bullet with your newly adjusted breech seater. 6. Knock the bullet back out and assess how much of the rear band of the bullet is engraved. 7. At least half of the base band should be engraved. 8. If not extend your seater out by 1/4 turn of the rod and check size of groups to fine tune your case volume for the powder load you are using. Picture of fine tuning a Weber seater to fine tune case volume or adjust to atmospheric impacts (temperature or atmospheric pressure changes) and elevation changes at new ranges. I purchased my first Weber Seater in the Fall of 2006 and started using his techniques. My 2007 scores increased by 6.6 points per Schuetzen target over the shooting scores from the previous two years.
	« Last Edit: Jun 23^rd, 2021 at 3:18pm by Schuetzendave »

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RSW Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1231 Location: Arizona Joined: Sep 8^th, 2006	Re: Breech seating lessons Reply #4 - Jun 22^nd, 2021 at 6:01pm	Print Post
	Dave's is a good explanation of the Weber system to determine breech seating depth. Sometimes a picture can make it a bit easier to understand. The Weber system (or method) is not intended to yield the best accuracy. It makes for a good starting place though. Bullets seated a bit shallower or deeper will likely give the finest accuracy in YOUR rifle. Each barrel and bullet is a little different. If anyone can explain the Ron Long method, that would be helpful.
	« Last Edit: Jun 23^rd, 2021 at 9:52am by RSW »
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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 4134 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: Breech seating lessons Reply #5 - Jun 22^nd, 2021 at 6:05pm	Print Post
	THX Randy. You make great presentations and they are very helpful. My minimum setting for my 236 grain .32 Paul Jones bullet in my Miller DeHaas was 1.610" or 0.140" past the case mouth.
	« Last Edit: Jun 22^nd, 2021 at 6:38pm by Schuetzendave »

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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Breech seating lessons Reply #6 - Jun 22^nd, 2021 at 7:25pm	Print Post
	One has to forget all about all of the per-say recommended means and methods to find one's own best seating depths. You really have to find the correct seating depths for each of your individual rifle. Russ Weber's is probably a good place to start but it was also not my own personal best seating depth.

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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Breech seating lessons Reply #7 - Jun 22^nd, 2021 at 7:41pm	Print Post
	For example my 28-35 had 220 thousandths of freebore. The bullets base diameter was larger than the freebore itself. So if using the Russ Weber approach the bullet being pushed in backwards would stop at the start of the freebore itself. And the bullet would probably not engrave much beyond the nose of the bullet it's self. This is also where 1/16 ahead of the case is also not the best breech seating bullet depth. The freebore length is also not always the same for each individual rifle's chamber.

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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11722 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: Breech seating lessons Reply #8 - Jun 22^nd, 2021 at 8:52pm	Print Post
	I never understood the Russ Weber method. I'm dense because I didn't understand it when Russ explained it to me. I still don't get it. The Weber method only tells one the distance from the start of the lands to the barrel shank face. That is if your bullet base touches the lands. That alone may not be where your rifle shoots best. The fat bullet shooters here might not even get to the lands using Webers method. Never heard of the Ron Long method.
	« Last Edit: Jun 22^nd, 2021 at 9:12pm by westerner »
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rkaires Frequent Elocutionist Offline No Stronger Bond Posts: 1650 Location: Dingmans Ferry, PA Joined: Oct 26^th, 2012	Re: Breech seating lessons Reply #9 - Jun 23^rd, 2021 at 10:43am	Print Post
	Thanks guys! I'm curious about the Ron Long method as well.

	ASSRA #11031 NRA Life Proud Noodlehead "Peace is that brief, glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading."~ ~ Thomas Jefferson
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Breech seating lessons Reply #10 - Jun 23^rd, 2021 at 11:32am	Print Post
	Based on my own experience engraving completely through the base of the bullet or just prior to it has always worked out to be the best place to be for me. With the various rifles that I have been breech seating through the year. Basically it is the same as muzzle loading a bullet that would also be completely engraved but doing it from the opposite end. It is also possible to adjust the seating depth to where the first bullet out of a cold clean barrel will start forming the group on the target. The means and methods that I used were published in a past ASSRA journal.
	« Last Edit: Jun 23^rd, 2021 at 2:18pm by JLouis »
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rkaires Frequent Elocutionist Offline No Stronger Bond Posts: 1650 Location: Dingmans Ferry, PA Joined: Oct 26^th, 2012	Re: Breech seating lessons Reply #11 - Jun 23^rd, 2021 at 1:26pm	Print Post
	John, Do you know what issue of the journal your article was published in? Thanks

	ASSRA #11031 NRA Life Proud Noodlehead "Peace is that brief, glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading."~ ~ Thomas Jefferson
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Breech seating lessons Reply #12 - Jun 23^rd, 2021 at 2:30pm	Print Post
	I just emailed you a PDF copy of the article. Please reply to it letting me know if you received it in good order.

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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rkaires Frequent Elocutionist Offline No Stronger Bond Posts: 1650 Location: Dingmans Ferry, PA Joined: Oct 26^th, 2012	Re: Breech seating lessons Reply #13 - Jun 24^th, 2021 at 4:25am	Print Post
	I got it John, thanks.

	ASSRA #11031 NRA Life Proud Noodlehead "Peace is that brief, glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading."~ ~ Thomas Jefferson
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RJ-35-40 Full Member Offline Posts: 163 Joined: Dec 7^th, 2016	Re: Breech seating lessons Reply #14 - Jun 28^th, 2021 at 5:53am	Print Post
	Schuetzendave wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2021 at 6:05pm: THX Randy. You make great presentations and they are very helpful. My minimum setting for my 236 grain .32 Paul Jones bullet in my Miller DeHaas was 1.610" or 0.140" past the case mouth. Dave / Randy / JLewis/ et.al thanks for your info.... Having never used a breach seater or shot anything other than fixed ammunition please excuse these rudimentary questions; 1, Do use a wad of some sorts to prevent spilling the powder or do you just tip up and load? 2, If using a wad with smokeless, is it on the powder or compression fit over the case mouth? 3, Do you use any sort of filler.. ? Anyone have source info for a good breach seater for a HiWall..? Thanks in advance Bob


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