Page Index Toggle Pages: [1]  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right (Read 6306 times)
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
May 29th, 2021 at 4:57am
Print Post  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Is this a "case" of "oxy-acetylene case colors"?

  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sure shot
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 913
Location: East central Iowa
Joined: Jun 22nd, 2020
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #1 - May 29th, 2021 at 6:37am
Print Post  
I don’t know how the color hardening was done, agree it doesn’t look right. I think it’s a beautiful rifle though. The 38-55 stamping on the top flat doesn’t look factory. The seller does say it was a restoration. However, the seller doesn’t show or say if the serial numbers match on the barrel and frame.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bent_Ramrod
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1467
Location: Southern Arizona
Joined: Feb 8th, 2006
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #2 - May 29th, 2021 at 8:22am
Print Post  
That’s what you get from CPA when you send them your old action for re-casehardening.  They do their own actions the same way.

To me, it’s going Stevens one better.  The classic marcelled effect, but never to excite the comparison with the finish on a budget single-barrel shotgun.  But a classicist might think of it as too much of a good thing.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16269
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #3 - May 29th, 2021 at 10:06am
Print Post  
I doubt you could get the defined colors and striping that gun has with a torch. It also think it looks like what CPA does on their guns.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 10625
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #4 - May 29th, 2021 at 10:18am
Print Post  
CPA's Colors are quite abit different and more attractive  than what is being shown.
  

" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bluesman
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 192
Location: Paradise, California
Joined: May 29th, 2006
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #5 - May 29th, 2021 at 10:18am
Print Post  
Somebody spent a boatload of money and a lot of work restoring that rifle....It would probably be a lot less startling if the photos were done without flash.

I'm about to embark on  building one for myself and I've been wrestling with how far to go with wood selection and finishing....I dislike the extreme look of "new" case colors, especially when it fights with beautiful walnut.

That barrel stamping in the wrong place really looks weird!
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 10625
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #6 - May 29th, 2021 at 10:25am
Print Post  
Here is an example of  CPA' s work and as you can see it is quite different.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  

" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 10625
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #7 - May 29th, 2021 at 10:33am
Print Post  
Somebody did spend allot of money on the restoration but unfortunately is quite abit different from an original.
  

" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MrTipUp
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Quality is to a product
what character is to
a man

Posts: 1314
Location: Indiana
Joined: Feb 19th, 2020
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #8 - May 29th, 2021 at 10:48am
Print Post  
Many years ago, I produced similar "case colors" using a propane torch and Oxpho-Blue amd Tru-Brown browning solution applied with a q-tip.  It came out quite nice, but I was also going for a mottled effect rather than stripes.  In any case, I can't think of any way to quench that would get stripes that random and in some cases quite far apart.  Therefore, on one hand, I'm betting the subject colors were done by an experienced torch wielder.  On the other, and speaking just for myself, I could live with them.

As for the barrel stamps, the ".38-55" is clearly new and on the wrong flat.  The company stamp is a little washed out (etched rather than stamped?) and is also one flat over from where it should be - unless a scope was originally factory-mounted?

Bill Lawrence
« Last Edit: May 29th, 2021 at 10:57am by MrTipUp »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sure shot
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 913
Location: East central Iowa
Joined: Jun 22nd, 2020
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #9 - May 29th, 2021 at 11:07am
Print Post  
I’ve had CPA recolor case 4 Stevens frames, they look exactly like the action in the picture JLouis posted. My first thought on the barrel stamping was that it was factory drilled and tapped for scope blocks, but no evidence of holes in the pictures, and the 38-55 should be on the left flat. I would also guess that the rifle would have to weigh at least 15 pounds or more.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 10625
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #10 - May 29th, 2021 at 11:18am
Print Post  
One could live with it if the reserve and the end selling price is not high. CC's look like some attempt at pack harding that I have also seen similar too in the past.
  

" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #11 - May 29th, 2021 at 1:36pm
Print Post  
Somebody will buy it, I suppose.  But not one of us.
  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
50target
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 135
Location: Alabama
Joined: May 27th, 2014
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #12 - May 29th, 2021 at 2:49pm
Print Post  
Don't forget that the set trigger doesn't work. Go to all the time, effort, trouble & expense and don't finish the job.
Not sure I would use the word restoration for this one.
Certainly above average however.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sure shot
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 913
Location: East central Iowa
Joined: Jun 22nd, 2020
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #13 - May 29th, 2021 at 3:49pm
Print Post  
It’s up to $1900, but the reserve hasn’t been met. I would be interested in it if it had a lighter weight barrel, I think it would be too heavy to shoot offhand. The double set triggers could just need a little adjustment, but I guess one doesn’t know.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
CW
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 495
Joined: Feb 20th, 2018
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #14 - May 29th, 2021 at 4:23pm
Print Post  
Steven's color case is of the cyanide type in tiger strip. The case on the subject receiver looks to be the correct general pattern attempted but has the color of Bone and Charcoal color case. Not cyanide.   
Tho - It is attractive IMO.

The barrel stamp (upside-down) makes me wonder if the barrel was re-timed or for some reason set-back? It would be interesting to see what is marked on any of the other flats and/or under the forearm.  No one would normally mark a barrel that way.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RSW
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1194
Location: Arizona
Joined: Sep 8th, 2006
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #15 - May 29th, 2021 at 6:04pm
Print Post  
Even with its obvious flaws, would it be possible to buy an original DST 44 1/2 action, have it barreled and stocked for about $2000? From that standpoint, it seems a reasonable price.
My biggest issue with the rifle as a possible shooter, is the poor fit of the butt stock to action at the wrist. The description does not mention barrel length, that could be another issue. It certainly is not a collector piece.
  

Randy W
ASSRA 10211  -  ISSA 125
There are indeed two Americas. Simply put, it is not the haves and have nots. The two Americans are in reality divided into those who do and those who don't.
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
oneatatime
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3912
Location: Rocky Mountains
Joined: Oct 30th, 2011
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #16 - May 29th, 2021 at 7:15pm
Print Post  
Randy, it now says that it is 30 inches and 30 inches of a barrel that heavy is a hefty offhand load.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ballardhepburnmich
ASSRA Board Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 598
Location: Scotts,mi.
Joined: May 20th, 2015
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #17 - May 30th, 2021 at 12:41am
Print Post  
I'm quite sure those colors were not applied with a torch. 
Lee Gibbs pres.ASSRA
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16269
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #18 - May 30th, 2021 at 9:56am
Print Post  
CW wrote on May 29th, 2021 at 4:23pm:

The barrel stamp (upside-down) makes me wonder if the barrel was re-timed or for some reason set-back? It would be interesting to see what is marked on any of the other flats and/or under the forearm.  No one would normally mark a barrel that way.


If you've seen many original Stevens rifles, you'd notice a large number with the rollstamp upside down. It's always puzzled me why Stevens did them upside down? I think the roll stamp might be original, but the caliber maybe not.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 10625
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #19 - May 30th, 2021 at 11:48am
Print Post  
A friend had quite the original Stevens collection and I have never seen a roll stamp placed there on any of his original rifles. The caliber marking also looks a bit odd. Its as if the barrel was re-fitted to the action and it needed to be rotated to have the roll stamp placed back into the correct position. But as RWS stated if it doesn't sell for to much it could end up being a real nice buy. 
I once owned a Stevens Pope 044/1/2 28-30 and the only caliber marking was nicely engraved on the side of the extractor. My collector friend said that was how some of them were marked. The roll stamp was on the top of the barrel and that is why it makes me wonder how this barrels caliber was actually marked. And or if the barrel had been improperly re-fitted to the action being shown. I also don't understand picture 39 of 40 showing two different caliber barrels. Was the one on the right the original barrel and the 38-55 possibly then improperly added. I can't figure that one picture out and I didn't see it mentioned unless I inadvertently miss something that might have also been there.
« Last Edit: May 30th, 2021 at 12:07pm by JLouis »  

" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sure shot
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 913
Location: East central Iowa
Joined: Jun 22nd, 2020
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #20 - May 30th, 2021 at 12:29pm
Print Post  
Here’s a factory 44 1/2 Stevens barrel that has the address stamp on the right flat and caliber stamp on the left flat, it was factory drilled and tapped for scope blocks. I have found that the extractors were sometimes stamped with the caliber, serial number, or the mysterious EX.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sure shot
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 913
Location: East central Iowa
Joined: Jun 22nd, 2020
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #21 - May 30th, 2021 at 12:41pm
Print Post  
Here’s my 45-44 1/2 .28-30 that was re-bored from.22 LR. It was color cased by CPA. The barrel was factory drilled and tapped for scope blocks also.
« Last Edit: May 30th, 2021 at 2:08pm by Sure shot »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16269
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #22 - May 30th, 2021 at 12:54pm
Print Post  
JLouis wrote on May 30th, 2021 at 11:48am:
A friend had quite the original Stevens collection and I have never seen a roll stamp placed there on any of his original rifles. 


Surprising that if his collection was of any size at all that he'd not have at least a few with the upside down stamp on that right side 45 flat.
My own collection was pretty meager and I had a couple. Seen many more in friend's Stevens collection.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 10625
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #23 - May 30th, 2021 at 1:45pm
Print Post  
Vall he once had a very extensive collection of original Stevens rifles. All of the various Models and calibers Stevens offered at the time. And of special features that various customers could order at the time and all in pristine condition. He started collecting back in the 70's and has since sold most of his collection off not wanting to leave that burden to his wife or to his children and understandable so. So that every item that went to each individual rifle also went with that rifle and not separated from that at times is unfortunately done.
  

" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 10625
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #24 - May 30th, 2021 at 2:06pm
Print Post  
Sure shot very nice looking rifle. Those I have seen that were D&Ted. for scope blocks had the roll stamp on the left flat. And thanks for sharing yours with it actually being on the right. As the saying goes we learn something new everyday.
  

" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #25 - May 30th, 2021 at 2:07pm
Print Post  
In  the photo archive that accompanies my Model 44 database I believe I can find a few with the address stamped upside down.
  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #26 - May 30th, 2021 at 2:11pm
Print Post  
ballardhepburnmich wrote on May 30th, 2021 at 12:41am:
I'm quite sure those colors were not applied with a torch. 
Lee Gibbs pres.ASSRA

How do you think it was done, then?
  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sure shot
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 913
Location: East central Iowa
Joined: Jun 22nd, 2020
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #27 - May 30th, 2021 at 3:37pm
Print Post  
I asked the seller a question about the rifle on gunbroker, he said that the serial number on the barrel does match the frame. I also asked if he knew who did the color case hardening, he replied that he didn’t know, and that he has owned the rifle for 14 years.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MrTipUp
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Quality is to a product
what character is to
a man

Posts: 1314
Location: Indiana
Joined: Feb 19th, 2020
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #28 - May 30th, 2021 at 4:05pm
Print Post  
I also don't understand picture 39 of 40 showing two different caliber barrels.

My educated guess is that beyond claiming it measures 1.25" wide at the muzzle (and is clearly wider than the action at the breech end), the seller is trying to convey by comparison just how large his rifle's uncommon full-octagonal barrel is.  However, if it really is a factory # 6 barrel. it's truly rare, since the largest barrel Stevens ever cataloged was a # 5.

Bill Lawrence
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16269
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #29 - May 30th, 2021 at 5:55pm
Print Post  
uscra112 wrote on May 30th, 2021 at 2:07pm:
In  the photo archive that accompanies my Model 44 database I believe I can find a few with the address stamped upside down. 


Glad to hear I'm not the only one whose seen these upside down rollstamps on Stevens.
First one I owned was a Stevens 44 in .44-40, and when I showed it to a friend who was an avid Stevens collector, and mentioned this "mistake"; he laughed at my comment. Said he could show me a bunch more, and next time I was at his house he pulled out 6 or 7 marked upside down on the 45 degree flat.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sure shot
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 913
Location: East central Iowa
Joined: Jun 22nd, 2020
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #30 - May 30th, 2021 at 6:54pm
Print Post  
The Savage made Stevens model 44’s with full round barrels, also had the upside down roll stamp on the right side of the barrel.
« Last Edit: May 30th, 2021 at 7:23pm by Sure shot »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RSW
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1194
Location: Arizona
Joined: Sep 8th, 2006
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #31 - May 30th, 2021 at 7:15pm
Print Post  
Recently I acquired a Stevens 45, 44 1/2 with No.3(?) full octagon (flush with receiver) that has the role stamp (upside down) on the right, 45 degree barrel flat. Caliber is stamped on left 45 degree flat. Barrel numbers to the action.
With an upside down role stamp on the right barrel flat, it reads rightside up when the rifle is held by a right handed shooter. So it does kind'a make sense, IMO.
It appears as though such upside down role stamps are out there.
  

Randy W
ASSRA 10211  -  ISSA 125
There are indeed two Americas. Simply put, it is not the haves and have nots. The two Americans are in reality divided into those who do and those who don't.
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Dellet
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1099
Joined: May 19th, 2017
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #32 - May 30th, 2021 at 8:32pm
Print Post  
How about upside down with half size lettering?

Late model 44 1/2 with Stevens arms trademark on left side of the action. Appears scope mounted from factory.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Sure shot
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 913
Location: East central Iowa
Joined: Jun 22nd, 2020
Re: Aomething about this 44-1/2 doesn't look right
Reply #33 - Jun 12th, 2021 at 4:49am
Print Post  
The bidding on the Stevens 51 went to $2600, but the seller’s reserve wasn’t met, and the listing ended without re-listing.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 
Send TopicPrint