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Hartford Pope rifle (Read 13053 times)

JerryH Frequent Elocutionist Offline ASSRA Member #10876 Posts: 1249 Location: Easton, CA Joined: Nov 9^th, 2014	Re: Hartford Pope rifle Reply #30 - Mar 1^st, 2021 at 7:14pm	Print Post
	Singer was also known for his triggers. And the three-fingered so-called "Pope" levers are actually Singer levers. A friend has a Singer Pope with the buttplate, lever, and palm rest all marked by Singer. I wonder if this one may have some marks on it. They are fairly small if I remember right and may go unnoticed if you don't look for them. JerryH
	« Last Edit: Mar 1^st, 2021 at 7:27pm by JerryH »
	I'm not a complete idiot, some of my parts are missing.
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JerryH Frequent Elocutionist Offline ASSRA Member #10876 Posts: 1249 Location: Easton, CA Joined: Nov 9^th, 2014	Re: Hartford Pope rifle Reply #31 - Mar 2^nd, 2021 at 11:14am	Print Post
	Bringing this back from the Twilight Zone. JerryH

	I'm not a complete idiot, some of my parts are missing.
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Hartford Pope rifle Reply #32 - Mar 2^nd, 2021 at 11:45am	Print Post
	Its been so long now Jerry since I have seen that friends Singer HiWall that I don't recall what his double set triggers actually looked like so thanks for bringing it up. At first look at the one currently be discussed they instantly reminded me of Otto Bremer'ss work. If memory serves me right Dave Fowler had Bremer's double sets on his Pope HiWall.

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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sloshooter Participating Member Offline Posts: 11 Location: California Joined: Apr 13^th, 2015	Re: Hartford Pope rifle Reply #33 - Mar 2^nd, 2021 at 3:02pm	Print Post
	The triggers look like the ones on .y Singer-Pope-Highwall. The ones I've seen of Brenner's àre different.


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Online Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16269 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Hartford Pope rifle Reply #34 - Mar 2^nd, 2021 at 6:28pm	Print Post
	Bremer triggers on my friend's OA Bremer Ballard (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) And the buttplate marking on Bremer style buttplate (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) Whole rifle (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)

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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Hartford Pope rifle Reply #35 - Mar 2^nd, 2021 at 6:55pm	Print Post
	I have seen that picture before it came up on a Otto A Bremer search and are not the same Bremer triggers that I have seen in the past. They have all been on HiWalls and I am not sure if that would make any difference or possibly not. And Schetzenbob might be the one that might know he has allot of knowledge and documentation about the sport of Schuetzen competition. Who allot of those folks were, what they made and what type of equipment was being used

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Online Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16269 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Hartford Pope rifle Reply #36 - Mar 2^nd, 2021 at 9:22pm	Print Post
	I think internally Bremer triggers for a High Wall, Stevens, Ballard, etc. would indeed be different. But I bet the external shape the shooter's finger contacts would all be very close to what Bremer considered ideal. Just like Singer's triggers will always have that thin wire like front trip trigger, regardless of what gun he fitted them to.

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Myers Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 383 Joined: Mar 5^th, 2013	Re: Hartford Pope rifle Reply #37 - Mar 3^rd, 2021 at 10:23am	Print Post
	marlinguy wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2021 at 9:22pm: I think internally Bremer triggers for a High Wall, Stevens, Ballard, etc. would indeed be different. But I bet the external shape the shooter's finger contacts would all be very close to what Bremer considered ideal. Just like Singer's triggers will always have that thin wire like front trip trigger, regardless of what gun he fitted them to. Val, I have to disagree with the thin wire on Singer triggers. Enclosed is a complete trigger/floating tang from a Singer/Pope.


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Myers Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 383 Joined: Mar 5^th, 2013	Re: Hartford Pope rifle Reply #38 - Mar 3^rd, 2021 at 10:26am	Print Post
	Another view


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scharfe Oldtimer Offline A good plan today beats a perfect plan tomorrow. Posts: 542 Location: ny / pa line Joined: Dec 18^th, 2006	Re: Hartford Pope rifle Reply #39 - Mar 3^rd, 2021 at 11:33am	Print Post
	The Singer Pope I posted on page 2 sold Feb 2020. Attached is a close up of it's triggers. It's triggers look similar to yours Mr. Meyers. That rifle also had no serial # on it. Is that your rifle on page 2. If so is it's # in the pope book ?
	« Last Edit: Mar 3^rd, 2021 at 12:43pm by scharfe »

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Myers Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 383 Joined: Mar 5^th, 2013	Re: Hartford Pope rifle Reply #40 - Mar 3^rd, 2021 at 11:58am	Print Post
	Yes I am the caretaker of the Singer pictured above. It is a Hartford Pope. There was no record of the rifle until I purchased it. It has now been added to the Harford Pope archives.
	« Last Edit: Mar 3^rd, 2021 at 12:05pm by Myers »

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hepburnman Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 402 Location: NJ Joined: Mar 22^nd, 2015	Re: Hartford Pope rifle Reply #41 - Mar 3^rd, 2021 at 1:25pm	Print Post
	Looks like the hammer sear notch is way down on the hammer. When cocked I guess it looks almost likes its not cocked at all? Very short hammer fall and fast lock time if this is the case. I guess the hammer spring has to be a lot stiffer to ensure reliable primer ignition?


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Schutzenbob Frequent Elocutionist Offline Rheinisch-Westfälisc hen Sprengstoff-Fabriken Posts: 2057 Location: Nightingale, California Joined: Oct 24^th, 2005	Re: Hartford Pope rifle Reply #42 - Mar 3^rd, 2021 at 2:05pm	Print Post
	Joe Singer and Otto Bremer were very prolific workmen and made and repaired all sorts of guns, including shotguns. I've examined several Bremer rifles that had European double-set triggers marked "Fox." Jerry Simons once sent me an envelope full of photos of a Bremer rifle in his collection that had a double-set trigger that set from the top, so it looked like a single trigger, but the set was on the top tang next to the sight base, and again those triggers were marked "Fox." Bremer and Singer were very clever workmen and did all sorts of nice work.


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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Hartford Pope rifle Reply #43 - Mar 3^rd, 2021 at 2:34pm	Print Post
	The holes in the hammer are miss-leading. It is the increased speed and not the inertia that sets the primer off. So it would not typically require more hammer spring pressure. Back when I was building custom homes I used a 20oz. Ruger Titanium framing hammer that would drive 16d GV Sinkers easier than a 32oz framing hammer. Think in terms of golf it is the club head speed that drives a ball farther and not the weight of the head. Same with the framing hammer and the rifle hammer shown.

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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Crown-C Senior Forum Member Online Posts: 496 Location: St. Marys Kansas Joined: Apr 6^th, 2009	Re: Hartford Pope rifle Reply #44 - Mar 3^rd, 2021 at 8:45pm	Print Post
	Thanks guys! Very informative thread on Singer and Bremer and their work. Certainly both were talented gunsmiths.

	Richard Crown-C Ranch in the Flinthills NRA Life Member ASSRA Member # 10366 Member & Founders Society, Cody Firearms Museum Veteran
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