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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) New Winchester .22 Low Wall (Read 6812 times)
AZshot
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Re: New Winchester .22 Low Wall
Reply #15 - Feb 15th, 2021 at 12:42pm
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I read somewhere, probably researching 52s and Winder Muskets, that single shots were found to be just too difficult to shoot extremely accurately, so bolt guns took over.  I know I was shooting my 1932 52 last weekend, with it's period 10X Lyman targetspot, and getting dime sized groups at 50 yds easily.   

To the OP, one thing to do is extend your range to 50 or 75 yds.  Many .22s will look pretty good at 25, but that's not far at all for a .22.  To really test them, go out further.
  
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JLouis
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Re: New Winchester .22 Low Wall
Reply #16 - Feb 15th, 2021 at 2:31pm
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My brother got a Winchester Model 69A for his Birthday back in the early the .60's and it is a single shot bolt action 22LR rifle with original sights. It is one of the most accurate off the shelf rifles I have shot. Quite a few years back myself and my uncle went out to shoot some ground squirrels and I was hitting them consistently at about 200 yds. Ammunition being use was the old Winchester T22 and you could get a brick on sale for $9.99 at just about any place here in town at the time. This rifle loved this ammo and it was a perfect match. I also used to shoot it in our indoor 100 shot offhand matches in my CPA and it also liked it extremely well for this particular use.
  

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rkba2nd
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Re: New Winchester .22 Low Wall
Reply #17 - Feb 15th, 2021 at 3:31pm
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Not to take away from your story John, but the Winchester 69A was a magazine fed 22 rifle, and surprisingly accurate for a reasonably priced 22.
  

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GT
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Re: New Winchester .22 Low Wall
Reply #18 - Feb 15th, 2021 at 6:16pm
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Breaking news!
We went to the Sioux Falls Show this weekend, in a moment of weakness a Winny 52 followed me home, it's an unmarked "A" made in 1937.  The temp here this morning was a balmy -12F and the wind was only blowing 14mph from the south so I put a Unertl 10x on it and dashed out to my range... in between the shivers I think it shot well.  The bench was a little uncomfortable.  So now the Ballard has yet another one to compete with.  Wink
  

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ssrifles
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Re: New Winchester .22 Low Wall
Reply #19 - Feb 15th, 2021 at 6:37pm
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gt, someone who is on the gun of the week club,i don't think that was a moment of weakness.   tony <><
  
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Re: New Winchester .22 Low Wall
Reply #20 - Feb 15th, 2021 at 7:37pm
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It's not usually a gun a week, it's a gun a month... just sometimes I forget what month it is...  Grin

Like my son says, it's a quota, not a limit.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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uscra112
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Re: New Winchester .22 Low Wall
Reply #21 - Feb 15th, 2021 at 8:16pm
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AZshot wrote on Feb 15th, 2021 at 12:42pm:
I read somewhere, probably researching 52s and Winder Muskets, that single shots were found to be just too difficult to shoot extremely accurately, so bolt guns took over. 

Contemporary writers said that the Stevens 417 was just as accurate, but awkward to use in the prone position, which was the universal .22 target game in the 1930s.  That's why bolt guns took over.
  

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waterman
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Re: New Winchester .22 Low Wall
Reply #22 - Feb 15th, 2021 at 8:39pm
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uscra112 wrote on Feb 15th, 2021 at 8:16pm:
AZshot wrote on Feb 15th, 2021 at 12:42pm:
I read somewhere, probably researching 52s and Winder Muskets, that single shots were found to be just too difficult to shoot extremely accurately, so bolt guns took over. 

Contemporary writers said that the Stevens 417 was just as accurate, but awkward to use in the prone position, which was the universal .22 target game in the 1930s.  That's why bolt guns took over. 


When competing in any of those position matches (prone, sitting, kneeling), even a moderately strong man or woman could put enough pressure on the forearm & barrel of a single shot with a conventional two-piece stock to change the point of impact of the rifle from position-to-position and maybe from shot-to-shot.  If a single shot were to compete with a bolt gun with a stiff one-piece stock and a heavy barrel, it required a butt stock fastened with a through-bolt, a forearm fastened with some sort of hanger, and maybe a free-floating barrel.  The BSA Martini Internationals were competitive and had good triggers.  The 417 Stevens was a 44 action and a coil-spring driven hammer, thereby negating the excellent trigger pull of the Stevens 44 action when powered by a flat spring.  I have never shot a heavy-barrel 417, but my guess is that it was not rigid enough to really be competitive.
  
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Sure shot
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Re: New Winchester .22 Low Wall
Reply #23 - Feb 15th, 2021 at 9:13pm
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Don’t forget the 417 had an adjustable trigger and a speed lock hammer. But yes, apples and oranges.
  
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uscra112
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Re: New Winchester .22 Low Wall
Reply #24 - Feb 15th, 2021 at 11:22pm
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From all the old stuff I've read, the .22 shooters weren't shooting 3-position in the '30s and post-war.  Or perhaps you might say that the three positions were prone, prone, and prone.  But it's right to say that the 417 barrel must have suffered some deflection when those guys got lashed into their slings. So there's that.
  

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Kurt_701
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Re: New Winchester .22 Low Wall
Reply #25 - Feb 16th, 2021 at 1:25pm
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It is my understanding that the 1885 Winder Musket was designed around 1904 as a military trainer. It was built in three forms, Highwall, Lowwall, & last the 1887 musket. They were discontinued in 1920.  The Winchester 52 was designed to offer the Army a replacement trainer around 1920. Springfield also built the Model M1922, variant M1 & variant M2 in 1925. These rifles mimicked the 1903 Springfield. I think early Winchester 52s in sporter weight barrels & M1922 Springfields are competitive. I started shooting Smallbore Prone in 1973. I started with a Winchester 52E and shortly moved to Anschutz 1811. I enjoy them all.
  

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waterman
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Re: New Winchester .22 Low Wall
Reply #26 - Feb 16th, 2021 at 2:10pm
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OK, now put a military-type sling on your Winder, get into a good, solid prone position, mat & etc., put a shooting glove on the hand that goes under the sling, get the sling as tight as you can stand it, and sight in on a 100-yard smallbore target.  Hold that position while you shoot 3 targets, placed vertically.  See what happens to your point of impact.

If your Winder is a .22 Short with a 1:20 twist, just use CCI high velocity plated ammo.  It will work well. And you will see the shift in POI from bull to bull.
  
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Kurt_701
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Re: New Winchester .22 Low Wall
Reply #27 - Feb 16th, 2021 at 4:20pm
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Deflection created by sling tension has affected many rifles. The BSA Martini series up to the Mark III. Basically, any competition rifle not free floated is affected. Hence AR developed the float tube. Both the M1 & M14 could be deflected. I shot them for over 20 years, and manage to make Presidents 100 & Distinguished Rifleman. However, the shooter can assume a position and with a reasonable mount of tension avoid the problem. We shoot BCPR off of sticks and see similar problems. As in the past, we adapt, develop, & over come.  Add another wrinkle a take down Winder Musket .22LR.
 
« Last Edit: Feb 16th, 2021 at 4:26pm by Kurt_701 »  

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