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Just a 1902 Webley (Read 5481 times)
oneatatime
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Just a 1902 Webley
Jan 19
th
, 2021 at 1:12pm
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Yeah, no one likes the finger lever, but there is a lot going on in it. It was the last large single shot design to come out of Britain. It was made in two sizes; a large one like this one available in all smokeless rimmed cartridges up through .600 Nitro and a smaller one with a cylindrical breech block that is most commonly seen in, of all things, .32-40. This one is in 450-400 3 1/4 inch Nitro Express (the .450 3 1/4 Nitro Express necked down to .400.) This was originally a black powder cartridge that made it into the smokeless era. The rifle is proofed for the standard load of a 400 grain jacketed (soft point or solid) bullet sitting on 60 grains of Cordite. I shoot it with a 400 grain thick copper jacket (.049) from Colorado Custom Bullets (think Barnes from back in the days when they made their jackets from copper tubing stretched to size by hooking one end to a jeep and driving off) sitting on 80 grains of IMR 4350. This yields about 2100 fps due to the short barrel (yes, it was not born this way). I also have some thin jacketed (.032) 400s and 300s. Meanwhile, back to the rifle. The barrel was probably around 26 inches originally but at some point was shortened to 20 inches. A friend of mine who is a professional hunter (PH) in Botswana remarked that it would be very handy in the bush. Even with the short barrel, the rifle weighs 10 pounds 5 ounces as the massive action is 1.725 inches across and the barrel where it meets the receiver is nearly 1.2 inches in diameter. Of course, that weight is appreciated when it is touched off. You can see that also in its history the sides of the receiver have been relieved of the modest fine scroll engraving and refaced and then covered with someone's coarser scroll and animal engravings (a Cape buffalo doing its "you looking at me?" stare on the left and an unhappy charging lion on the right. You can still see the original scroll on the lever and the top of the receiver and the top tang. These animals would have been appropriate as the 400 was classed as a large medium bore in Britspeak and was the standard all-round go to cartridge until the .375 H&H came along. Oddly for a dangerous game rifle, it has an automatic safety on the tang. It has a standing and 2 flip-up leaf sights on the barrel (100, 200, 300 respectively.) I added the steel Redfield bases and the Pentax "Lightseeker" 0-5x LER scope.
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oneatatime
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
Reply #1 -
Jan 19
th
, 2021 at 1:28pm
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You can see that it has loops for the standard canvas web and hook sling and I have carried it elk hunting with those. The PH would normally have had a gun bearer carrying its original 12 pounds or so around. "Elk hunting?" you ask. It's like this, after I had a bullet from a 7mm Mag disintegrate on its way to an elk by encountering a twig, I decided that, from then on, nothing less that a 12 inch spruce trunk would get in the way of my bullet. Of course, I never had a chance to get to test that out. John "Pondoro" Taylor in his book "African Rifles and Cartridges" tells that he was very, very fond of the cartridge and at one time had 2 doubles (a Purdey and a Jeffery) and a single in it. Oh, I forgot, I also have a box of Kynoch solid bullets for it. Anyone have a rampaging jackrabbit needing removal? Also forgot to note that it was made and finished by Webley and Scott. Many of these actions were sold to the trade by Webley and finished by other makers.
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Last Edit: Jan 19
th
, 2021 at 5:27pm by oneatatime
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Crown-C
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
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Jan 19
th
, 2021 at 1:59pm
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Well now that is just a pretty darn neat rifle!
Richard
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westerner
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
Reply #3 -
Jan 19
th
, 2021 at 2:17pm
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Is that the one with the main spring housed in the lever?
A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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scharfe
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
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Jan 19
th
, 2021 at 2:18pm
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I always liked the reply from a PH on why he carried a .600. "Because they don't make a .700".
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GT
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
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Jan 19
th
, 2021 at 2:25pm
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Nice Webley!!! I have a couple of the round block castings, one's ready for a wood and a barrel - it's just that I get so easily distracted...
Thanks for sharing, wished someone would make a casting of this larger version...
Greg
"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk" T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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oneatatime
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
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Jan 19
th
, 2021 at 4:09pm
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Yes, Joe, the underlever is deeply slotted and contains the hammer, sear, main spring and sear spring. The firing pin is bushed and spring loaded and the hammer moves off the pin before the block moves. The block is at 2 degrees like the 1885 Win and moves away from the base of the cartridge as it starts to move. GT, it turns out that there is a large action and a larger action. This is a larger action and it is possible that the 400s would normally be on the large action (compared to the 450s, 470s, 500, 577s and 600s on the larger) but you could get whatever you wanted;-) The barrel shank is 1.125 and is 1 inch long with 14 TPI V threads. It was all made in Britain unlike the late Farquharsons that began life in Belgium before being shipped to Britain. If you wished for a casting, GT, it would probably be more useful to have it of the large action rather than the larger unless maybe you wanted to build a 50-140 or larger.
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GT
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
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Jan 19
th
, 2021 at 6:53pm
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OaaT,
I have a Fraser I'm finishing in a 450-400 3.5" (bbl, reamer, brass and dies have all been waiting it's completion) but I also have the same pieces and parts for a 470NE and a 577NE but it appeared to large for the Fraser so the larger Webley would be about right. If I ever wanted to finish one... There's a Jeffery and a Rigby Farqy in the mix that will work for this too so the Webley isn't a necessity, just interesting.
I have used these bigger rifles (416 Rigby and 425 WR) on moose, elk and antelope, they are very effective. As for the dangerous game, prairie dogs with the plague and saber tooth whistle pigs - these big guns really put a guy's mind at ease when you're out in the field.
Greg
"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk" T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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westerner
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
Reply #8 -
Jan 20
th
, 2021 at 2:40am
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I often resort to .22 shorts when gallery shooting to get relief from LR recoil, so the big calibers are out for me.
I always found that action with the big honkin lever fascinating from a mechanical standpoint.
A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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rkba2nd
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
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Jan 20
th
, 2021 at 1:03pm
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And the PH that stated "they don't make a 700" must have said that prior to the late 80s when the 700 nitro was brought out by Holland and Holland. I believe it was developed in part by Bell of brass fame?
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oneatatime
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
Reply #10 -
Jan 21
st
, 2021 at 12:29am
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I saw one of those at the H&H booth at a Safari International Show in Reno a few years back. I think the rifle was something like $65,000.
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oneatatime
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
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Jan 21
st
, 2021 at 12:47am
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Here's a couple of pics of the lever open (actually held all the way open against the spring with the extractor extended). And there is a diagram of the innards. I think I can see why there is an auto safety since the trigger is in the receiver and must be held back by the safety to correctly pick up the sear on return. Circled in red on the diagram is what I found to be the weak link (no pun intended) in my action. You can see that the mainspring is attached to the hammer via a stirrup. The pin that the spring is holding sheared off on both sides. It now has an S&W revolver stirrup.
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Joe Do...
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
Reply #12 -
Jan 21
st
, 2021 at 8:03am
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It’s the British single-shot rifles that got me interested in single shot rifles altogether. My second single-shot was a Farquharson and I didn’t realize how simple (mechanically) these rifles were.
Your Wesley is a great example ... very nice overall.
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Chuckster
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
Reply #13 -
Jan 21
st
, 2021 at 10:06am
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Beautiful action, but not what you would call simple mechanically.
See a lot of complicated parts and careful fitting required.
Chuck
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marlinguy
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
Reply #14 -
Jan 21
st
, 2021 at 10:29am
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That's a gorgeous Webley Chauncey! Thanks for sharing it!
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oneatatime
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
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Jan 21
st
, 2021 at 8:30pm
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Thanks, Vall. Next show, we can go to the range and you can try it. I wouldn't try prone! I see that Wal Winfer, author of Tom Rowe's single shot books, shoots his with a 365 grain bullet and 35 grains of SR 4759. I have a 370 grain cast bullet and will have to try it with SR 4759. I have some Kynoch brass and some of the proper Berdans for it and will save the newer brass for Boxer primers for heavy loads.
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Longdistance1
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
Reply #16 -
Jan 22
nd
, 2021 at 12:33am
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Very nice rifle Chauncey! But it might beat you up shooting a match with it.
LD1
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oneatatime
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
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Jan 22
nd
, 2021 at 12:46am
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I had my choice of 2 of them way back when I got it. The other one was a .600 Nitro!
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Longdistance1
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
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Jan 22
nd
, 2021 at 12:57am
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I think you made the right choice!!!
LD1
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oneatatime
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
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Jan 22
nd
, 2021 at 3:31pm
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Well, financially, no, but shootability wise, a definite yes. That 600 would be worth soooo much now.
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ESG89
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
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Jan 23
rd
, 2021 at 2:51pm
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Very cool! What book did you take that photo from?
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oneatatime
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
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Jan 23
rd
, 2021 at 6:11pm
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If you mean the diagram, it came from Wal Winfer/Tom Rowe's Webley single shot volume.
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
Reply #22 -
Jan 24
th
, 2021 at 8:35pm
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After seeing 1902 Webley I just had to read all, as I am the owner of A Webly Forsbury 1902 revolver, although it is not a rifle is is quite unique, its a semi auto revolver in .455 cordite and I shoot it once a year just to clean it and rub it, delete this if it brakes rules---
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oneatatime
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
Reply #23 -
Jan 24
th
, 2021 at 9:30pm
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No surprise. Where did I see that in that time period something like 80% of all civilian guns being made in Britain were made by Webley? But, you will have to give us a picture of it;-)
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Fred Boulton
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
Reply #24 -
Jan 25
th
, 2021 at 7:14am
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UK buyers used to like to believe that the gunsmith from whom they purchased their equipment actually made it. Hence, most British rifles from pre-WW1 days are marked with the retailers name, not the actual manufacturer. Also, quality gun makers---eg Holland and Holland----would use their own staff to make the really high end products and have the run of the mill stuff made in Birmingham, but to their specifications. I met a guy who had worked for Webley for many years and he reckoned that 90% of their production had a retailers name on it or no name at all.
I have a mint 2-band Snider that I think was made by Webley. It has no makers name and no serial number.
Fred
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Re: Just a 1902 Webley
Reply #25 -
Jan 26
th
, 2021 at 4:06pm
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Appreciate it, oneatatime, gotta add another book to the library!
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