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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What .40 Cal. is this???? (Read 7457 times)
Rex N
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Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #15 - Jan 3rd, 2021 at 10:06pm
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I have a Ballard Pacific in 40-85 and shoit it with 9.3  x 74R cases blown out to 40 cal.  I load with 83 gr of 1 1/2 swiss under a 340 gr paper patch bullet. It shoots like crazy.  I also shot 400 gr lubed bullets but it prefers the paper patch...or maybe it is me that prefers it.

« Last Edit: Jan 4th, 2021 at 11:00am by Rex N »  
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marlinguy
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Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #16 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 10:24am
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Rex N wrote on Jan 3rd, 2021 at 10:06pm:
I have a Ballard Pacific in 40-85 and shoit it with 9.3  x 63R cases blown out to 40 cal.  I load with 83 gr of 1 1/2 swiss under a 340 gr paper patch bullet. It shoots like crazy.  I also shot 400 gr lubed bullets but it prefers the paper patch...or maybe it is me that prefers it.



Isn't the 9.3x63 quite a bit short? My .40-85 is almost 3" long, and the case you're using is close to 2.5" long, isn't it?
  

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oneatatime
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Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #17 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 10:34am
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I don't think there was a 9.3x63 rimmed cartridge. There was a 9.3x65R Brenneke and a 9x63R.
  
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Rex N
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Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #18 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 10:59am
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You’re right my mistake, I am using 9.3x74R cases and they are the perfect length.  I bought a bunch online as once fired brass.
  
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4570mike
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Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #19 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 11:27am
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Well, I have been working on forming the 9.3X74R case into .40-85 Ballard.  After fire forming a few cases, I attempted loading them. I was using .40-65 dies to expand the case mouth and immediately found that the expander would not go into the case very far before the case walls would bulge (buckle) below the expander.  I cleaned the case interior and even tried dry neck lube with no improvement. The expander would not enter far enough to reach the flairing segment. To remedy that, I used a  smaller expander and carefully just "kissed" it to obtain a small flair.  Next problem was when seating slugs longer than the distance the expander went in, the case would bulge below the bullet and prevent it from chambering.
Some cases were just fire formed; some I annealed and both had the same problems.
I had attempted to modify the cases by progressively expanding the mouth. The first one went okay, but every subsequent one expanded off center.  These I then fire formed, but the case mouths were extremely uneven.
The brass I have is Norma. Maybe it's too hard; too thick?   
I was able to get eight rounds loaded so they would chamber.  I fired these with a 335 gr. slug, a moderate powder charge and some COW to take up the air space. All fired nicely. I thought these cases would be easy to reload, but the same problem persisted with case bulging below the seated bullet preventing it from chambering.  This occurred with both annealed and non-annealed cases.
I have a feeling the chamber on this rifle was cut tight (too tight?) as fired cases won't accept the expander nor new bullets.
Plan "B" is to convert this into 40-65.  I don't shoot BP, so I don't need the case capacity.  I have those dies and brass.   
Frustrated. Lips Sealed
  
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marlinguy
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Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #20 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 2:10pm
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All my brass is Nosler 9.3x74R brass. I use my Lyman M Die expanding the necks in just two steps. First is to .380" and then to .410" 
My M die expander plugs are long enough to allow my heaviest 420 gr. Lyman Snover bullets to fully seat. And once fired they finish forming. My M dies were milled open on the sides to allow me ease of viewing to watch the expander enter the case and not crumple brass.

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I use a larger M die in .452" to bell the case mouths and allow the bullets to seat easily. I use my .40-70SS die set to seat the bullets, and remove the bell. No issue along the way. I don't anneal the brass at all, and still haven't after numerous firings with my smokeless charges.
  

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4570mike
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Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #21 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 2:43pm
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Marlinguy,
I'm wondering if it's the Norma brass.  Seems no matter what I do or what procedure is used the brass bulges below the expander or the seating bullet and prevents chambering.
I see Privi is making this metric case; any guess it might work better?
Thanks for your input,
Mike.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #22 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 4:06pm
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4570mike wrote on Jan 4th, 2021 at 2:43pm:
Marlinguy,
I'm wondering if it's the Norma brass.  Seems no matter what I do or what procedure is used the brass bulges below the expander or the seating bullet and prevents chambering.
I see Privi is making this metric case; any guess it might work better?
Thanks for your input,
Mike.


Sorry Mike, but I've used nothing but Nosler brass for reforming. Nosler had a big sale a few years back where they sent me a email saying their 9.3x74r brass was on special for $14.95 a box. I bought several hundred rounds, and still have about half of them unused. Figure if I ever did lose any, I'd open more of them.
My Pacific in .40-85B is my favorite long-range rifle, and such an enjoyable, and accurate rifle that I shoot it more than any other single shot I own. 

I wonder if your expander is large enough diameter, and long enough to expand enough for the bullet you're using? My gun shoots a .411" bullet, and it easily seats into my expanded case necks with not much more than finger pressure. And my Lyman expander goes plenty deep enough to allow any .411" bullet to fully seat.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #23 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 4:11pm
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PS-If it helps, I can measure wall thickness of my Nosler brass, both before and after expanding?
  

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4570mike
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Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #24 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 4:33pm
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Please do. I'd be curious if there is a difference.
Thanks!
Mike.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #25 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 4:34pm
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If you are firing it with a bullet you should probably use a full power load to fully form it. Here's a maybe: what if the chamber has been cut strictly for breech seating? Have you made a casting? what is your groove diameter?
  
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marlinguy
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Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #26 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 4:59pm
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4570mike wrote on Jan 4th, 2021 at 4:33pm:
Please do. I'd be curious if there is a difference.
Thanks!
Mike.


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The original case neck shows .011" wall thickness at the mouth. The expanded neck shows just under .11" and since I'm using Helios dial calipers it's tough to say for sure, but probably .005" thinner after expanding. 
 
In the picture attached you can see the wasp waist of my expanded case with the bullet seated, and the case after first firing with a full charge, same as I use after the first firing. That's a lighter 350 gr. RCBS CSA bullet. Another I have had very good accuracy with out to 650 yd. and 990 yds.
  

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Rex N
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Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #27 - Jan 4th, 2021 at 6:39pm
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I annealed my cases expanded them by fire forming  them with unique, corn meal and tissue paper and barrel pointed up to the sky.  Then I expanded them for a bullet, sized in a 405 win die to make sure there is no bulge, the loaded with black and fired.  Now they are good to go.  My ballard has a tight paper patch chamber so I shoot soft smaller dia paper patched bullet.  I can shoot full size grease grove bullets but it is snug, and if there is any belling and they won’t fit.  I don’t resize between loadings.
  
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Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #28 - Jan 5th, 2021 at 7:37am
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I measured the case mouths and got the same 0.010"-0.011" you found. 

I think it's time for plan "B".

Thanks for all your input and suggestions.

Mike.
  
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Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #29 - Jan 22nd, 2021 at 3:08am
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I followed Val's advice a couple of years ago and fireformed my 9.3x74R cases neck expanded to .40 and trimmed to .40-70 Ballard. I use 70% charges of Trail Boss, 350 grain cast and shot better than I expected from the unformed (preformed?) cases. Never had a case failure.

Yesterday I used the same procedure with .40-50SS formed from .303 British (9gr Trail Boss and 240 grain cast) and shot under 1" at 25 yards out the back of a friends barn (private range). The cases formed very well. I say skip the middle step and have more fun.  Thanks Val. Wayne
  
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