Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What .40 Cal. is this???? (Read 7431 times)
4570mike
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 439
Location: On the Peninsula
Joined: Apr 11th, 2013
What .40 Cal. is this????
Dec 28th, 2020 at 4:38pm
Print Post  
I just acquired a used single shot rifle that was supposed to be in .40 Crossno but isn't. 
It is .40 cal. but the cases that came with it are 9.3X74R.  Only one was expanded to .40 all the rest were still 9.3MM.  I'm guessing the seller never fired it.
Is anyone familiar with a "wildcat" .40 cal. based on the 9.3X74R cartridge?
The chamber is cut to accept the full length (2.90") of the metric case.  The chamber will not accept a 40-65 case.
Seems like it would have "ample" powder capacity!
And, I know, I know, a chamber cast would help; I'll need to get some casting material.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Mike.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Pacific Rifle
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 22
Joined: Oct 14th, 2020
Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #1 - Dec 28th, 2020 at 4:59pm
Print Post  
I remembered hearing about the 40 Crossno years ago and googled it.  There is some discussion here:

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

See the Ray Newman post quoting Crossno.  Is that what you have?  If so, it seems like Buffalo Arms (Dave Gullo) might know something about the brass.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
oneatatime
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4177
Location: Rocky Mountains
Joined: Oct 30th, 2011
Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #2 - Dec 28th, 2020 at 5:28pm
Print Post  
Full length should be more like 40-85/40-90 Ballard. That's what you could call it if you wanted to shoot it in a match;-)
« Last Edit: Dec 28th, 2020 at 5:52pm by oneatatime »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ranch13
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 608
Location: East Central Wy.
Joined: Jan 20th, 2018
Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #3 - Dec 28th, 2020 at 5:39pm
Print Post  
Sort of sounds more like someone's attempt at a 40-90 st.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kootne
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 455
Location: Libby, Mt.
Joined: Mar 6th, 2012
Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #4 - Dec 28th, 2020 at 6:02pm
Print Post  
I'm with oneatatime,  9.3x74 is a drop-in for .40-85 Ballard. Rim is a little small on the OD but they work.
  

You can't make good decisions without good information.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Pacific Rifle
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 22
Joined: Oct 14th, 2020
Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #5 - Dec 28th, 2020 at 6:34pm
Print Post  
Is your rifle setup as a target rifle?  Many of the recent silhouette rifle builds were attempts to "game" the rules with wildcats which were close enough to an original cartridges to meet the NRA rule.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Online


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 17325
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #6 - Dec 28th, 2020 at 7:23pm
Print Post  
I use 9.3x74R to make my .40-85 Ballard cases. Just expand to .40 caliber, and then fire them and they finish forming out. Prior to firing they're slightly wasp waisted. But they shoot as accurate while finish forming as they do after formed.
No trimming required either, as the length is perfect.
.40-85 formed from 9.3x74R is the top cartridge:

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

I believe Dave's .40 Crossno was a .40-82 using a .45-90 case to form them.
« Last Edit: Dec 28th, 2020 at 7:29pm by marlinguy »  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
4570mike
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 439
Location: On the Peninsula
Joined: Apr 11th, 2013
Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #7 - Dec 28th, 2020 at 7:41pm
Print Post  
I think you guys nailed it!

The rifle, a Frank Wesson No.1, was built by Ron Snover and looking at the internet, apparently he made chamberings to 40-85 Ballard using the metric cases.

The rifle came with a hundred Norma cases, but they were not fire formed so I guess that's what I will need to do.  Having never done that, and with limitations on powder these days, do you think I can use 700X shotgun powder?  How much? Just top off with COW and a wad?

Thanks everyone for your responses.

Mike.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
oneatatime
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4177
Location: Rocky Mountains
Joined: Oct 30th, 2011
Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #8 - Dec 28th, 2020 at 8:02pm
Print Post  
700-X shotgun powder burns like Bullseye so it should be fine with COW. Maybe start with 8 or 9 grains and work up until you get a good form. The wad is just there to keep the COW from falling out so maybe 1/8 floral foam or I've used some old bullet lube flattened to 1/16 between two sheets of Saran Wrap with a rolling pin and just pressed over the neck. Vall should have good ideas on this.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Online


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 17325
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #9 - Dec 28th, 2020 at 9:54pm
Print Post  
As I mentioned, I don't fire form before loading. I simply use my M die in two steps to get to .40 caliber. First use a .380" expander, and then a .410" expander. Then just charge the case, and seat the bullet as normal. First firing and they form out the rest the way.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
4570mike
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 439
Location: On the Peninsula
Joined: Apr 11th, 2013
Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #10 - Dec 29th, 2020 at 8:00am
Print Post  
Marlinguy,
What shell holder do you use?  Seems to be little info on the 40-85 cartridge.
Mike.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ww
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 176
Joined: Apr 18th, 2017
Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #11 - Dec 29th, 2020 at 8:57am
Print Post  
Using the 9.3X74Rmm brass I'd use the shell holder for the parent cartridge.  My Hornady dies for the 9.3 list a #13 shell holder. 
I don't have a 40-85 Ballard I but built a Remington #5 rolling block in 9.3X74Rmm and acquired Sabatti double rifle in 9.3X74Rmm this fall but haven't had a chance to play with it yet.
WW
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bent_Ramrod
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1537
Location: Southern Arizona
Joined: Feb 8th, 2006
Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #12 - Dec 29th, 2020 at 9:53am
Print Post  
I have a Hepburn in .40-90-3-1/4”.  It came with Norma 9.3x72R cases, which I’ve supplemented with RWS cases and Bertram .40-90 cases.

The loading dies that came with it had a .44-40 shell holder and a note that this works with the metric cases.  It also seems to work with the “real” cases.

I give the 9.3 cases a light anneal, use ~10 gr Unique and the rest of the shell full of COW and fire form.  They straighten out good enough to load .40 bullets, although they’re short.  They never form all the way down to the base, but they at least work.  This is an original chamber, of course; not a Shiloh Sharps or other custom chamber based on .405 or other basic cases.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Online


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 17325
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #13 - Dec 29th, 2020 at 10:48am
Print Post  
4570mike wrote on Dec 29th, 2020 at 8:00am:
Marlinguy,
What shell holder do you use?  Seems to be little info on the 40-85 cartridge.
Mike.


RCBS #4 or Hornady #13. 

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Green_Frog
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


"It ain't easy being green"
ASSRA Life #281

Posts: 4135
Location: Lynchburg, VA
Joined: Apr 18th, 2004
Re: What .40 Cal. is this????
Reply #14 - Dec 29th, 2020 at 3:09pm
Print Post  
I have recently begun fire forming 9.3X74 cases to fire in my 40-90 Ballard.  A couple of things I've discovered include; I can use the same shell holders listed for 44-40 WCF with my cases and they work perfectly; I prime a new case, add 60 gr +/- of 2f GOEX black powder, top the case up with cream of wheat then "cork" the case with a wad of facial tissue; after the first firing, the cases are a little "wasp waisted" but I load them with by filling them early to the mouth with the same GOEX and top with a 40 cal bullet that now will fit the case mouth; finishing the round with moderate compression.  After firing this round, the case is a perfect fit in my chamber.

I'm sure there are better ways to do this, but the process I've described works for me.

Froggie
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Send TopicPrint