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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Stevens M-44 Finishes (Read 6742 times)
uscra112
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Re: Stevens M-44 Finishes
Reply #15 - Dec 21st, 2020 at 6:26pm
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oneatatime and ratseye; Do I have your pieces in my log?  Can you provide photos?
  

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oneatatime
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Re: Stevens M-44 Finishes
Reply #16 - Dec 21st, 2020 at 6:48pm
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I think it's in your list. Standard 44/45, #838X, 7 o'clock, 28 inch, 25-20 (SS), small Swiss.
  
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uscra112
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Re: Stevens M-44 Finishes
Reply #17 - Dec 21st, 2020 at 6:53pm
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I'm not finding it.  P/M me the rest of the s/n, I want to add it, especially since you have proof that the breechblock and hammer were CC'd.
  

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ratseye
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Re: Stevens M-44 Finishes
Reply #18 - Dec 21st, 2020 at 8:11pm
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USCRA, here is my M44 #49 close up, PM me. Thanks, ratseye
  
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uscra112
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Re: Stevens M-44 Finishes
Reply #19 - Dec 21st, 2020 at 8:28pm
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Now I wonder how many with CC breechblocks and hammers I've missed because the color was gone or under a brown patina.  Never too old to learn.
  

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MrTipUp
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Re: Stevens M-44 Finishes
Reply #20 - Dec 21st, 2020 at 9:48pm
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I, too, am always willing to learn.  I'd have guessed that full color hardening might've been more likely in the 1XX-series rifles and in the square-corner 44s, but that seems to not necessarily be the case.  Is there, however, a cut-off point based on serial numbers?  Or on the rifle's grade?  I ask, because I can't believe there isn't some pattern here.  Perhaps uscra112 has a large enough database to spot it.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Chuckster
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Re: Stevens M-44 Finishes
Reply #21 - Dec 21st, 2020 at 11:49pm
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Don't know about Stevens, but have a method to caseharden hammers, sears, links and triggers that seems to work.
Do not have them color casehardened with the rest of the action. High wear parts need a heavier case.
Chuck
  
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uscra112
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Re: Stevens M-44 Finishes
Reply #22 - Dec 22nd, 2020 at 1:02am
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Given that I only have two specimens which positively have CC hammers and breechblocks, sample is too small. I now have to go back thru a thousand or more stored pics to re-evaluate whether I've failed to notice signs of CC.  Don't hold dinner for me.

Good point about casing Stevens hammers and trigger more deeply than receivers.  

Phil
  

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Sure shot
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Re: Stevens M-44 Finishes
Reply #23 - Dec 22nd, 2020 at 5:02am
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In the Jay Kimmel Savage and Stevens Arms book, there is a reprint of an article from the October 1904 issue of The Sporting Goods Dealer, that talks about the case hardening process used by Stevens. It seems the Stevens factory used both the bone process and the cyanid process. The article states the parts where only wanting the color are only left in the kilns for 20 minutes, with the  cyanid process, and parts that are wanted with more than  just color they use the bone process, and are left in the kiln for 3 or 4 hours. There is a couple of pictures of the kilns Stevens used. Interesting read.

Now I wonder if any of the early Favorite rifles had color case hardened breech blocks and hammers?
  
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uscra112
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Re: Stevens M-44 Finishes
Reply #24 - Dec 22nd, 2020 at 5:49am
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Now that y'all have me looking closer.....I just picked up a square-cutout Favorite s/n 56898 that was handy, and I think I can convince myself that there's a faint trace of color on the breechblock.  The patina on the little sideplate I just acquired is too far gone to tell.  A 44 s/n 35088 that's also handy is definitely blued.  For more first-hand research I'll have to open the safes.
  

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MrTipUp
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Re: Stevens M-44 Finishes
Reply #25 - Dec 22nd, 2020 at 6:09am
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My understanding, for what it's worth, is that the pattern of the colors comes from the quenching process, not the medium.

Bill Lawrence

  
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uscra112
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Re: Stevens M-44 Finishes
Reply #26 - Dec 22nd, 2020 at 7:19pm
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Today I pawed through my own collection of 44s and variants.  I have a Model 47 circa 1896 that I could convince myself once had case colors on the breechblock, and ditto my 108 s/n 2023.  All the rest are either blued or too far gone to tell.  

Query: How does CC steel age vs. blued?  Is a breechblock that's uniform gray more likely to have been CC?  Less prone to rust? Dunno.  

One more axis of variation that I should have been paying attention to.
« Last Edit: Dec 22nd, 2020 at 7:24pm by uscra112 »  

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MrTipUp
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Re: Stevens M-44 Finishes
Reply #27 - Dec 22nd, 2020 at 7:37pm
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My experience is that the harder and smoother the surface, the less prone it is to rust.  Case hardening certainly fulfills the first of those criteria and my guess is that surface prep was at least as fine as for bluing for maximum color effect.

Bill Lawrence
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Stevens M-44 Finishes
Reply #28 - Dec 23rd, 2020 at 10:34am
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MrTipUp wrote on Dec 22nd, 2020 at 6:09am:
My understanding, for what it's worth, is that the pattern of the colors comes from the quenching process, not the medium.

Bill Lawrence



Bill, Factors affecting the pattern are 1. Water, 2. Effect of shielding, and 3. Aeration.

The medium does affect it also, but there are formulas for the medium that all work, but vary among those doing the work and what colors they get with different mediums.
Jim Dager did an excellent, and lengthy tutorial on the process as he learned it with the help of Oscar Gaddy. It's posted at the MFCA forum and is 33 pages long to date.

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Jim found out that no matter what you did with the pack, if the parts were no put together on a "tree" with other parts, and even end shielding at the ends of the parts, good colors couldn't be achieved. They simply came out gray.
  

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Re: Stevens M-44 Finishes
Reply #29 - Dec 23rd, 2020 at 1:31pm
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Marlinguy's CCH link is a good read, with much useful information. Below are two pictures of a Ballard action, that I CCH'ed, without a tree or shielding, so there are a variety of methods that can produce good color.
At a NRA summer gunsmithing course, a Remington Rolling Block action had a Rockwell hardness of 33 post CCH. However, several Mauser floor plates, in the same crucible, were glass hard. So different steels and part thickness, also play a role. The RRB had very little hardness depth and I agree with Chuckster that the breechblock and triggers benefit from a deeper case hardening.
I plan to CCH the M-44 action, lever and butt plate but intend to harden the breechblock and trigger separately, before blueing. I'd be interested in Chuckster's method of hardening these parts.
From working with Maynard actions, I have no doubt that old CCH will resist rusting and has a distinctive look after 100+ years.
Otto
  
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