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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard (Read 18931 times)
jbinnh
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Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Nov 17th, 2020 at 12:50pm
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Have a hankering to shoot this gun but my research into Ballards has raised more questions than were answered. I have read the descriptions of cast vs forged on this forum but am still unsure of what I have. The attached picture is taken with the block half dropped out. Is there enough in the other picture to tell what this gun is? It is chambered in 32-40 but the barrel is unmarked so I suspect its not original. The lever looks identical to the Schoyen rifle in Brophy's book on page 141. Two lines indicates it was made 1881 or later per Ned Roberts' Breech Loading book. More pictures available. 
Thank you for any help. My goal is to find a safe smokeless round to shoot. 
John
  
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jbinnh
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #1 - Nov 17th, 2020 at 12:56pm
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Well that didn't come out very well but if you scroll on the first pic you can see the breech and below it. Will take my picture problems back to the drawing board.
  
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Quarter_Bore
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #2 - Nov 17th, 2020 at 1:01pm
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Seems to have a rather tight butt plate. This is often seen on Schoyen and Peterson rifles. I've noticed that Peterson barrels were often not stamped with name. Are there any set screw marks under the forearm? Does it have 7 groove rifling?
« Last Edit: Nov 17th, 2020 at 1:08pm by Quarter_Bore »  
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bobw
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #3 - Nov 17th, 2020 at 1:14pm
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Resized the photo for you.

I'm not the expert here on Ballards but she looks pretty solid under the barrel.
The guys that know them will be along shortly.

Nice looking rifle by the way!!
« Last Edit: Nov 17th, 2020 at 1:21pm by bobw »  

Robert Warren
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Quarter_Bore
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #4 - Nov 17th, 2020 at 1:25pm
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I forgot. Yes, It is forged frame.
  
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jbinnh
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #5 - Nov 17th, 2020 at 2:15pm
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Yes, there are several what look like set screw marks but only 6 grooves. Is that a clue?
  
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jbinnh
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #6 - Nov 17th, 2020 at 2:19pm
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Heres a picture of under the forearm. 
Hope its reduced enough. 
john
  
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Quarter_Bore
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #7 - Nov 17th, 2020 at 2:55pm
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I would guess that it is not a Peterson or Schoyen and that it was fairly recently built up--but I don't know it all.
  
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jimmy
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #8 - Nov 17th, 2020 at 9:49pm
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I really think we need more pictures. Awesome looking rifle.  Shocked
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #9 - Nov 18th, 2020 at 10:32am
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Two line address does not indicate when the gun was made. What's on the address does indicate this. A two line address often indicates it's a forged action, which yours is. But if the address is "JM Marlin" it indicates 1881 or before. If it's "Marlin Firearms Co." it's 1881 or later.
Your barrel appears to have a liner in it from the noticeable ring I see at the chamber end of the barrel, so most likely not a Schcoyen bore. But 6 grooves wont be a Schoyen anyway. 
It's a very lovely old Ballard though, and I especially like that lever and buttplaate.
  

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jbinnh
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #10 - Nov 18th, 2020 at 11:12am
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I think I am getting the picture reduction down now so am sending some more per request.
Do appreciate the information I am getting from you folks. Is there some way to tell what model this gun is. I am not familiar with the differences in the diff names and numbers out there. Is it a pieced together gun?
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #11 - Nov 18th, 2020 at 11:50am
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I can tell you which it might be, and which it likely isn't. But impossible to tell exactly what model it is. If the breech block halves match the receiver number, then it's likely it started life as a Union Hill. And a #8 had set triggers, so if the blocks serial number to the action it's likely the #8. The stepped side receiver eliminates some other pistol gripped receiver models like the #6, or others that usually have flat sided receivers.
The very high serial number, and Marlin Firearms Co. stamped receiver indicate it's in the very last Marlin Ballard rifles produced, and almost certain it's from 1890 era.
Yes, it's likely a pieced together gun, as most dedicated schuetzen rifles often were. The question really is how pieced together it is? The stocks, buttplate, lever, are all non Marlin, so added later. The barrel should have a matching serial number under the forearm, and if none, then that too was changed. As I mentioned, if you drop the lever screw and remove the breech blocks, you can examine the rear tail of the breech block halves for a serial number. Each half has the same number, and if it matches the receiver, then they started with a complete Marlin Ballard action to build the rest of your gun.
  

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bobw
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #12 - Nov 18th, 2020 at 11:53am
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I think your original post included “I want to shoot the gun”.   
Again, I’m not the Ballaed expert but if everything is checked out by an experienced person in Ballards I would shoot it all day long with properly loaded shells.
  

Robert Warren
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jbinnh
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #13 - Nov 18th, 2020 at 12:24pm
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Fantastic. Will drop the block and check the no's and see how they match. I am delighted to learn about this gun. 
Just for show and tell, below are some of the tools that came with it. 
John
  
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rodneys
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #14 - Nov 18th, 2020 at 12:49pm
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Well I see a Pope lubricator and  a Z c Talbot re and decapper and a re and decapper that I do not recognize. Very neat out fit
  
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