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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard (Read 18878 times)
MrTipUp
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #15 - Nov 18th, 2020 at 1:59pm
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The non-Pope lubricator is one I think I recognize but can't put a name to.  In any case, not only are there two of everything, but I notice that the two powder scoops are clearly for different quantities.  The smaller scoop could be for a "squib load" and the rifle isn't a switch-barrel, but the tools do make me wonder if the rifle didn't have a second barrel.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #16 - Nov 18th, 2020 at 2:25pm
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John,
Nice outfit! you're causing a few of us to drool! If the headspace is good and the bore is halfway reasonable I wouldn't hesitate shooting it.  WOW!
Greg
  

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rkba2nd
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #17 - Nov 18th, 2020 at 7:32pm
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Also early tang sight for a very late rifle, and I can't see the ring indicating a lined bore, of no real importance, except to eliminate the possibility of Schoyen's hand. A very nice rifle, and with all the tools, even more so. Enjoy it.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #18 - Nov 18th, 2020 at 9:13pm
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rkba2nd wrote on Nov 18th, 2020 at 7:32pm:
Also early tang sight for a very late rifle, and I can't see the ring indicating a lined bore, of no real importance, except to eliminate the possibility of Schoyen's hand. A very nice rifle, and with all the tools, even more so. Enjoy it.


Sure looks like about maybe 1/8" of original barrel at the outside of a liner in this image:

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marlinguy
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #19 - Nov 18th, 2020 at 9:17pm
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That set of tools is amazing, and quite the neat bits to go with the gun! I'd guess maybe the two scoops were for either heavier or lighter bullets, and fixed cased bullets, or breech seated loads maybe too? 
The Pope lube pump appears to have a different handle added to make it more comfortable to use? Or maybe it's one of the copies of Pope's pump made by others" Any markings on the main tube body of the all brass lube pump?
  

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rkba2nd
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #20 - Nov 18th, 2020 at 11:21pm
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Marlnguy  Could be, I just thought it looked as though the face was faceted rather than flat. I have a good friend that lines barrels, and it is absolutly impossible to detect. Ron long was one that could do the same, and sure there are many more.Really a blessing in disguise, as it breathes new life into these fine old rifles.
  

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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #21 - Nov 19th, 2020 at 8:32am
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Wow! Nice set of loading tools. 


Could the 2 different powder scoops be black and smokeless? Its what popped into my head.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #22 - Nov 19th, 2020 at 10:52am
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rkba2nd wrote on Nov 18th, 2020 at 11:21pm:
Marlnguy  Could be, I just thought it looked as though the face was faceted rather than flat. I have a good friend that lines barrels, and it is absolutly impossible to detect. Ron long was one that could do the same, and sure there are many more.Really a blessing in disguise, as it breathes new life into these fine old rifles.


I thought it appeared that the chamber was sleeved first, and this was what I was seeing. Sometimes the liner wont clean up the chamber so a smith sleeves the chamber first, then lines the barrel. If it's a stepped or facetted back to the barrel, then it wouldn't be a factory Marlin Ballard barrel. 
I've got a few relined barrels done by great gunsmiths and they are very hard to detect without a magnifier and close up examination. But since liners are dissimilar metals they can usually be seen at the chamber end, and occasionally on the muzzle end.
  

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rkba2nd
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #23 - Nov 19th, 2020 at 3:01pm
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Marlinguy - The poster stated that the barrel was unmarked, so that suggests that it is a newer barrel and not likely lined or the chamber lined. I am well aware that a factory barrel would be flat at both ends having owned and still owning a few Ballard rifles, but quite possible that the smith that fit the barrel decided to cut that outside contour. Kind of a nice touch. I have a very nice pre 64 Winchester model 70, originally chambered in 7mm Mauser, that unfortunatly(from a value standpoint) was re- chambered to 7x61 Sharpe and Hart early in it's life, and considered having the chamber lined to the original cartridge, but decided to leave it as is, that conversion being popular at the time. The chamber work was done by a long time Weatherby employee, and the rifle shoots factory Norma ammunition exceptionaly well with 160 gr Nosler partition bullets. I am glad I decided to leave as is. At times that is the best course of action.    Krag
  

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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #24 - Nov 19th, 2020 at 9:32pm
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Here is a pic of the muzzle and even up close  I cannot detect a liner. 
Lets see....the scoops. Both are marked, one 20 and one 40, just on opposite sides of the handle. 
No markings on the lubers.
The sight does have graduation marks on the left side of the staff. 
It came with a Lyman, will have to look at it again but believe it to be a targetspot 12X. Will check tomorrow. I don't have a good palm support so will look into getting one. Don't know how to shoot a schutzen style buttplate off a bench but assume it can be done. 
Thank you all for your input. Have another pic I will send tomorrow. 
John
  
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #25 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:51am
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Here are another couple of pics. Best shot I have of full gun. 
The collection of stuff includes 2 boxes of colloidal wads, one of which is full. The ammo boxes appear to contain all factory loads and several of them are full also. Is there any collector value for the boxes with ammo? I really don't need them as long as I keep some brass for myself. Have about 30-40 loose pieces of brass that will go into the tumbler soon. Will have to go to another discussion group to research loads. I have 12 grs of 4759 in mind to start. 
I hate to admit it but when trying to drop the block I could not get it all the way out. Took out the lever screw with action open, held the extractor in place  then pulled down and forward as the NRA disassembly
book says but it would not jiggle out. Maybe I should try it again when I am not so excited. 
Your responses certainly have my interest picqued! Thank you. 
Would love to shoot with someone that knows what they are doing. Any schutzen shooters in NH? 
John
  
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #26 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 8:55am
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Can no-one here help him with loads?

  

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marlinguy
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #27 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 10:37am
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The oldest two piece box in the center of the ammo collection has some decent value, but the others not so much. If any are full and all factory loads it will add to their values.
The breech block will never come out if you hold the extractor in place. Need to remove the lever screw after opening the lever. Then with the block about halfway down you can slip the extractor out past the block, and the block will drop out. Repeat the halfway in process to reassemble the block and extractor.
  

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MrTipUp
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #28 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 10:59am
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Marlinguy is essentially right that two-part boxes, the cleaner and more damage-free the better, are the most collected. However, full vintage boxes, especially of popular or obsolete cartridges such as the .32-40 or .25 RF, respectively, are still easily worth $20-$30 each and often more.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Help identifying this Marlin-Ballard
Reply #29 - Nov 20th, 2020 at 12:01pm
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There are loads scattered in this forum, but the 4759 one is a fair beginning. I use 13.6gr. With a bullet of 196gr. I also like 14-14.5gr. of 4227 with same and similar bullets. Fixed or breech seated these are modest pressure, and likely fine in your beautiful rifle, but start cautiously for safety's sake.
Damn fine outfit there. As anoter here is prone to say, I want it-bad!
  
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