Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Hopkins and Allen 22 Rifle (Read 7106 times)
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1531
Location: NW, Iowa
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Hopkins and Allen 22 Rifle
Nov 15th, 2020 at 10:40pm
Print Post  
I know these rifles are not real collectible but when I saw this one couldn't resist it.  Someone dressed it up a bit!

Over all it is a nice rifle as the photos show, probably redone, obviously the frame was polished.  The rifling is just so-so though but shootable.  I've had this gun for quit awhile but got it out a couple years ago and its been sitting in the rack in my shop since.  Started doing some research recently, have read most of the old threads here, and believe it is a medium frame rifle.  The frame is 1.2" wide with .140" thick side walls, a side pin retaining the barrel, 9 o'clock extractor.  Now trying to decide if I want to line the barrel, it would only cost the price of the liner since I can do the work.  Its been fun sitting in the rack, everyone that sees it has to pick it up.
« Last Edit: Nov 15th, 2020 at 10:48pm by bobw »  

Robert Warren
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1531
Location: NW, Iowa
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Hopkins and Allen 22 Rifle
Reply #1 - Nov 15th, 2020 at 10:41pm
Print Post  
More photos.

From what I understand the odd looking rear screw on the right side adjusts the sear engagement.  It does have a nice trigger pull.

The rebounding hammer surprised me being a low priced gun in its day.
« Last Edit: Nov 15th, 2020 at 11:03pm by bobw »  

Robert Warren
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1531
Location: NW, Iowa
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Hopkins and Allen 22 Rifle
Reply #2 - Nov 15th, 2020 at 10:42pm
Print Post  
More
  

Robert Warren
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kootne
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 441
Location: Libby, Mt.
Joined: Mar 6th, 2012
Re: Hopkins and Allen 22 Rifle
Reply #3 - Nov 15th, 2020 at 11:23pm
Print Post  
Nice rifle Bob, I have it's older half brother, a 32 R/CF Baystate midframe. Yours is nicer shape. I think they were a little overwhelmed in the market place by another rifle that also came out in 1885, made by Winchester. There is no caliber marking on mine.
  

You can't make good decisions without good information.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Rex N
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 122
Location: Canada
Joined: Aug 16th, 2017
Re: Hopkins and Allen 22 Rifle
Reply #4 - Nov 16th, 2020 at 12:32am
Print Post  
I restored a Base state rifle that was rusty, mising a chunk of wood and in 32.  I lined it to 22 and it turned out to be a nice rifle.
If I were you I would reline it and enjoy it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kensmachine
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 574
Joined: Nov 21st, 2012
Re: Hopkins and Allen 22 Rifle
Reply #5 - Nov 16th, 2020 at 12:51am
Print Post  
put a liner in it and send the receiver out for color case
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gewehrfreund
Senior Forum Member
****
Online



Posts: 437
Location: Cortland
Joined: Jan 24th, 2005
Re: Hopkins and Allen 22 Rifle
Reply #6 - Nov 16th, 2020 at 9:34am
Print Post  
^ That. and put a tang sight on it!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kootne
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 441
Location: Libby, Mt.
Joined: Mar 6th, 2012
Re: Hopkins and Allen 22 Rifle
Reply #7 - Nov 16th, 2020 at 11:37am
Print Post  
Thanks for the ideas guys, I'm actually set up to do all those processes. I've already got a relined 3922 H&A .22 that is a tackdriver and a bunch of 32rf's which I shoot. So the Baystate has just sat in a corner behind a milling machine. I'll be older than Methuselah if I live long enough to accomplish all my projects.
Sorry Bob, for the drift. I really do like your rifle.
Dennis
  

You can't make good decisions without good information.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1531
Location: NW, Iowa
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Hopkins and Allen 22 Rifle
Reply #8 - Nov 16th, 2020 at 12:01pm
Print Post  
Dennis, no problem on a drift.  I started this thread just for the purpose of seeing comments on this gun and any that others have.  These poor Hopkins and Allen guns suffer from lack of confidence and respect when hanging out around all the 1885’s, Ballards, Stevens and so on!  Grin

rex, nice job on the rifle.

Ken and gowehrfreund, I’m I to assume you aren’t fans of the the classic deco on the frame!   Cheesy

Bob
  

Robert Warren
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1531
Location: NW, Iowa
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Hopkins and Allen 22 Rifle
Reply #9 - Nov 16th, 2020 at 12:16pm
Print Post  
I’m not familiar with the Baystate version so can someone enlighten me on the history?  Looking at Rex’s rifle compared to mine there is  quite a bit of difference in screw locations and his does not have the sear adjusting screw.  Is the Baystate a version of the 9 series guns?

On a side note about these rifles, I see C. Sharps is or was building a version of the small 9 series gun.  Must be some interest in them.
Bob
  

Robert Warren
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MrTipUp
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Quality is to a product
what character is to
a man

Posts: 1314
Location: Indiana
Joined: Feb 19th, 2020
Re: Hopkins and Allen 22 Rifle
Reply #10 - Nov 16th, 2020 at 3:22pm
Print Post  
Back in the 1950's, my father was friends with a fellow machinist and amateur gunsmith who did lovely restoration work except for his penchant for jeweling his nicely repolished actions and sometimes other fittings.  Supposedly, his excuse was that back then finding someone who would do small color case hardening projects, especially for DIY craftsmen like him, was extremely difficult.  Unfortunately, I can't remember his name, only that he lived in South Bend, Indiana and worked for the South Bend Tool & Die.

Bill Lawrence
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kootne
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 441
Location: Libby, Mt.
Joined: Mar 6th, 2012
Re: Hopkins and Allen 22 Rifle
Reply #11 - Nov 16th, 2020 at 3:28pm
Print Post  
Bob, what I know is plagiarized from Ned Robert's book and assorted gun nut legends. Nutshell version; I think William Davenport designed the action, maybe even made some rifles? Baystate Arms acquired the patent, made them for 2 or 3 years, went under and H&A bought the tooling, patents and parts. 
Baystate may have made all 3 sizes, I don't know. They are not common in any size. H&A made all three sizes, medium frames are quite scarce. The big and little ones are everywhere. 
The Baystate medium frame I have has a neat RF/CF block. There is a sliding dovetail plate that can be secured with a screw to put the firing pin at either center or 9 o'clock. It also has a removable trigger plate similar to rolling blocks which does not appear to be carried over in your rifle.
Gun nut legend has it that Baystate's were made with better materials and craftsmanship but that may just be what the guy selling a Baystate will say.
I stuck in a picture comparing Baystate medium with H&A small.
  

You can't make good decisions without good information.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1531
Location: NW, Iowa
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Hopkins and Allen 22 Rifle
Reply #12 - Nov 16th, 2020 at 8:15pm
Print Post  
Dennis, thanks for the info, and no, mine does not have a removable tigger plate.  Interesting about the rimfire/centerfire block, I think I saw somewhere that H&A had a link with two lower holes to accommodate the same but not sure what model it was used on.
  

Robert Warren
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobw
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1531
Location: NW, Iowa
Joined: Mar 19th, 2013
Re: Hopkins and Allen 22 Rifle
Reply #13 - Nov 16th, 2020 at 8:40pm
Print Post  
Bill, that info is really interesting.  The restoration on this gun was done by someone that did really nice work and it is an older restoration.  The frame is very nicely polished and the jeweling is well done and besides the frame sides, the hammer, breech block, front of the frame, lever pivot and even the barrel retaining pin are jeweled.  When I bought the gun my intent was to polish out the jeweling but now I think not, it has grown on me and I will leave that for the next caretaker if they choose too.  Also, when I started this thread I hoped someone that knew something about the person that did the work would show up and comment.  After all it is unusual.  You may have, if not found the guy that did the work, at least given a reason why the jeweling may have been done.  Thank You.
  

Robert Warren
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MrTipUp
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Quality is to a product
what character is to
a man

Posts: 1314
Location: Indiana
Joined: Feb 19th, 2020
Re: Hopkins and Allen 22 Rifle
Reply #14 - Nov 16th, 2020 at 10:07pm
Print Post  
Interestingly enough, when I saw what had been done to your rifle and the quality thereof, I was immediately reminded of my father's friend and the examples of his work that I saw back then.  I was a teenager and also arrogant in what relatively little I knew about "proper" restoration, so I was doubly appalled by what the fellow did.  But as my dad explained - after chewing me out about my attitude - jeweling provides a surface that helps retain the light coat of oil with which you periodically coat bare steel or iron.  This was long before the rust inhibitors we have today, of course.  But as you say, the result does have a certain charm all its own.  And also like you, I'd now choose to leave it alone.

Bill Lawrence
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint