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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Peterlongo target rifle (Read 5786 times)
Patrick Chadwick
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Peterlongo target rifle
Nov 11th, 2020 at 10:13am
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... in that everyday (not!) caliber 8x47R Stahl.

Now for another struggle to post pics!

« Last Edit: Nov 11th, 2020 at 11:16am by Patrick Chadwick »  
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Patrick Chadwick
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #1 - Nov 11th, 2020 at 11:23am
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Push out the spring-loaded pin and out comes the block.
Push out the wedge in the forearm.
Loosen the tang screw.

And out comes the action!
  
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Patrick Chadwick
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #2 - Nov 11th, 2020 at 11:29am
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It has a pretty set of BUG proofs...
  
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Patrick Chadwick
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #3 - Nov 11th, 2020 at 11:33am
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... and shoots the 8x47R Stahl blackpowder cartridge, the immediate forerunner of the well-known 8.15x46R. It uses the same lead bullets.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #4 - Nov 11th, 2020 at 11:33am
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So nice!
  
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waterman
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #5 - Nov 11th, 2020 at 12:08pm
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Is there a date for the rifle?  Maybe part of the proof stamping?  And if I understand correctly, the proof is only for the barrel, maybe submitted before rifling?
  
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Patrick Chadwick
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #6 - Nov 11th, 2020 at 12:38pm
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waterman wrote on Nov 11th, 2020 at 12:08pm:
Is there a date for the rifle?  Maybe part of the proof stamping?  And if I understand correctly, the proof is only for the barrel, maybe submitted before rifling?


Good questions!

Firstly, some basic info on BUG proofs:

BUG proofs were introduced with the Proof Law of 1891. It was not until early 1893 that it was fully implemented. Guns made in the interim were marked with the "Crown over V" mark, where V stands for Vorrat, i.e. in stock. So BUG indicates that the gun was made post-1892.

Crown over U = definitive proof (not an intermediate proof) of barrel or action.

Crown over B = final proof of the finished gun. Only possible when the U proof has previously been passed for (in this case) system/action body and barrel.

So no B without U !

Crown over G = proof mark for rifled barrels.

So action body gets U. Barrel gets U plus G (proof in rifled state)

And the the finished gun gets a B on barrel and action.

Hence BUG on barrel, but only BU on action.

If you look closely at the accompanying photo you can see that the barrel has BUG and the action has BU (just visible at bottom left).

As to the date, I am slightly puzzle by the stamped figures, and would appreciate comparative info from anyone who has a similar rifle.

First, remember that the Germans and Austrians use a decimal comma. So (see below the BUG proofs) 172,28 looks like a decimal value. Maybe the weight of the bullet in grains, as 172,28 grams would be ridiculous. And that weight of powder would be a crazy overload that would fill the case AND a couple of inches of barrel!

The following 11.03 is not a decimal number, but it could be a date, i.e. November 1903.
And 12 40 puzzles me, as I can see no sense in stamping the time to the minute, i.e. 12:40. So it must be something else.

Finally, the monogram in the center looks somewhat like a JP (i.e. Johann Peterlongo) but I think it is rather a curly H. Maybe the barrel-maker?

Contributions/alternative interpretations welcome!
« Last Edit: Nov 11th, 2020 at 1:58pm by Patrick Chadwick »  
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #7 - Nov 11th, 2020 at 2:04pm
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Neat rifle! I want it!

Rare find in that caliber as most were rechambered or rebarreled to the modern 8.15X46R.   

Here is a 1891 provisional proof mark applied to the stock on my Stahl rifle. 

Thank's for sharing.   
  
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Patrick Chadwick
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #8 - Nov 11th, 2020 at 2:37pm
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I have a Stahl as well.

"You can see mine if I can see yours."

It's your turn!
  
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Patrick Chadwick
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #9 - Nov 11th, 2020 at 2:43pm
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westerner wrote on Nov 11th, 2020 at 2:04pm:
Neat rifle! I want it!

Rare find in that caliber as most were rechambered or rebarreled to the modern 8.15X46R.   

Here is a 1891 provisional proof mark applied to the stock on my Stahl rifle. 

Thank's for sharing.  



Indeed, it would have been a candidate for a chamber insert. I'm very glad to have found it, as I have been looking for a long time for a "shoulder-friendly" small-bore BP rifle for competitions.
  
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #10 - Nov 11th, 2020 at 4:09pm
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The 8.15 X46 R is also an excellent round with BP. 

Okay, here's mine.
  
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #11 - Nov 11th, 2020 at 4:44pm
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172.28 is the common plug gauge marking for the bore for 8mm barrels. (this plug .300 fit and the next largest - 156.14=.310 - one didn't). 11 03 is the month and year of proof and the larger number at the bottom is usually, and probably, the sequence number of the ledger entry for the proof at the proof house. The odd decimal gauge system was adopted by the Germans from the British proof system of 1868 and represents the number of lead balls of that diameter that it took to make a pound (take that you metricists!). The gauges were laid out in .010 increments. Our most common use of it is, of course, 12 gauge which is 12 balls to a pound.
« Last Edit: Nov 11th, 2020 at 5:07pm by oneatatime »  
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #12 - Nov 11th, 2020 at 5:06pm
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Very unique rifle and cartridge. I like it...


JMH
  
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Patrick Chadwick
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #13 - Nov 11th, 2020 at 5:31pm
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oneatatime wrote on Nov 11th, 2020 at 4:44pm:
172.28 is the common plug gauge marking for the bore for 8mm barrels. (this plug .300 fit and the next largest - 156.14=.310 - one didn't). 11 03 is the month and year of proof and the larger number at the bottom is usually, and probably, the sequence number of the ledger entry for the proof at the proof house. The odd decimal gauge system was adopted by the Germans from the British proof system of 1868 and represents the number of lead balls of that diameter that it took to make a pound (take that you metricists!). The gauges were laid out in .010 increments. Our most common use of it is, of course, 12 gauge which is 12 balls to a pound.


Wow! Now that is real insider information. So I've got a "172,28"-gauge rifle. May I ask where you discovered this?

As to the dig at metrification: I have a Gasser 1870/74 revolver - the real big brute that fires what look like carbine cartridges and makes most other revolvers look wimpish. 

I was puzzled by the odd length of the barrel - until I discovered that it is in fact a nice round 7 inches.

Austrian inches, of course.
« Last Edit: Nov 11th, 2020 at 5:46pm by Patrick Chadwick »  
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Patrick Chadwick
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #14 - Nov 11th, 2020 at 5:34pm
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westerner wrote on Nov 11th, 2020 at 4:09pm:
The 8.15 X46 R is also an excellent round with BP. 

Okay, here's mine.


Oh dear! Me and my big mouth! Now I have to go and make more pics a.s.a.p. Tomorrow (maybe).
  
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Patrick Chadwick
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #15 - Nov 12th, 2020 at 3:47am
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westerner wrote on Nov 11th, 2020 at 4:09pm:
The 8.15 X46 R is also an excellent round with BP. 

Okay, here's mine.


And a very nice rifle that is too!

I've posted mine in a new thread, to avoid confusion.
  
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #16 - Nov 12th, 2020 at 12:32pm
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The rifle I purchased a few months ago only has the name and address on the top barrel flat. No other markings anywhere. Would that be an indication of its age. I was hoping a loading kit would turn up at the second and third auction from the same estate but it didn't. 
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #17 - Nov 12th, 2020 at 1:05pm
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ww wrote on Nov 12th, 2020 at 12:32pm:
The rifle I purchased a few months ago only has the name and address on the top barrel flat. No other markings anywhere. Would that be an indication of its age. I was hoping a loading kit would turn up at the second and third auction from the same estate but it didn't. 
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #18 - Nov 13th, 2020 at 9:08am
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Here's mine 9.5X47R . Plain with no engraving. 

WW
  
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #19 - Nov 13th, 2020 at 9:11am
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Left side.
WW
  
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #20 - Nov 13th, 2020 at 12:02pm
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Very nice!   Shocked

Can you show us a casing or cartidge for you rifle?
  
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Patrick Chadwick
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #21 - Nov 13th, 2020 at 2:20pm
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No BUG and not even a "Crown over V" means that it was made pre-1891, like my Stahl.

Please show us the name and adress - that may help to narrow down the date. My Peterlongo has the number stamped on the front end of the action, normally hidden by the fore-end! Name and adress plus a number could help even more if one can find dated and numbered examples by the same maker.

WW, I think you need to remove the fore-end wood. There may be markings on the bottom barrel flat or the action body.
« Last Edit: Nov 13th, 2020 at 2:28pm by Patrick Chadwick »  
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #22 - Nov 13th, 2020 at 7:27pm
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Nothing under the forearm,  the only marking found was a serial number under the disassembly lever and the name and address on the barrel top flat. Still working on making brass.
WW
  
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #23 - Nov 13th, 2020 at 7:55pm
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This it?
  
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Re: Peterlongo target rifle
Reply #24 - Nov 13th, 2020 at 9:20pm
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I found 1 box of Bertram at $4 each but would like to make some with a little thicker neck wall. My chamber cast mikes .413 in the neck. Bertram brass mikes .402/.404 unsized. I still need dies made. It will be spring before it sees range time.
WW
  
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