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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model (Read 10852 times)
slumlord44
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Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Oct 29th, 2020 at 12:32am
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I just got around to reading an article in the May/June Single Shot Rifle Journal entitled Streetcars, Gas Lights, and Black Powder; Target Shooting, Winder Muskets and maybe some other stroies thrown in by Waterman. On page 23 there is a brief reference to the Stevens No 600 target rifle brought out in 1911 built around a BSA Martini action. It is also known as the Bisley Model and I have on so marked. I did a lot of research on this gun when I got it many years back. It was discussed at length on this forum. Waterman states in this article that there were 10 of them made. I would like to know his source for this number? The only number I came up in my research was about 12 as I recall. Need to try to find all my research on this. May take a while after moving 4 months ago. I recal coming up with serial numbers on around 10 but I'll have to check.  One sold on Gun Broker a while back and I added it to my records. My thoughts are there should be more out there. If anyone here has one I would apprecate any info ont it. Back to my question. Where did Waterman come up with the production number of 10?
  
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slumlord44
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #1 - Oct 29th, 2020 at 9:25pm
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Anyone?
  
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uscra112
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #2 - Oct 30th, 2020 at 3:54am
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I know of these only from the reference in Grant, which will surely be old news to you.
  

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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #3 - Oct 30th, 2020 at 7:13am
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I have seen only one ad for this gun, culled I presume from some British publication.  If I remember correctly, it was displayed on this site, if some time ago.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #4 - Oct 30th, 2020 at 7:48am
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I've only recently heard of these rifles,I saw the one on gunbroker this past year or so. Where were these guns made,here in the U.S. by Stevens,or made up by someone for Stevens in England?
  
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #5 - Oct 30th, 2020 at 8:57am
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(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  

WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. Let's Go Sonny!
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slumlord44
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #6 - Oct 30th, 2020 at 10:07pm
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I'm still looking for Watermans source for the 10 gun production figure. I'm sure he did not pull that number out of the air.
  
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uscra112
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #7 - Oct 30th, 2020 at 11:54pm
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On Page 12 of Grant's "Still More Single Shot Rifles' he describes one, and refers to a Guns Magazine article, February 1969, by a Mr. Kingsley Karnopp.  Karnopp in turn cites a V.P. of Savage/Stevens named O. M. "Jack" Knode as saying that only ten were made.
  

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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #8 - Oct 31st, 2020 at 9:57am
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One of the Bisley  models came up for sale about 10-12 years ago at the Topeka Ks, Kull action. I looked at it at a preview and it was nice. I wasn’t really into Stevens, but I did bid it up to $1,500 if memory serves me right. Think it went for a little more. I’d bet someone on this forum bought it! They got a good one!
  

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slumlord44
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #9 - Oct 31st, 2020 at 10:59pm
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I'm familiar with Grant's reference. Hoping there might be another source. My example is not pristine. Has a Parker Hale liner in it for one thing. Bought it a long time ago for what I thought was a crazy price at the time. Not so crazy now. Still looking for any info on them and a better example than the one I have. Mine is a good shooter. For as few as there are supposed to be, several that I have come across have been modified. One is now in 219 Zipper. The fun is in the search.
  
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waterman
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #10 - Nov 1st, 2020 at 2:47am
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slumlord44 wrote on Oct 29th, 2020 at 12:32am:
I just got around to reading an article in the May/June Single Shot Rifle Journal entitled Streetcars, Gas Lights, and Black Powder; Target Shooting, Winder Muskets and maybe some other stories thrown in by Waterman. On page 23 there is a brief reference to the Stevens No 600 target rifle brought out in 1911 built around a BSA Martini action. It is also known as the Bisley Model and I have on so marked. I did a lot of research on this gun when I got it many years back. It was discussed at length on this forum. Waterman states in this article that there were 10 of them made. I would like to know his source for this number? The only number I came up in my research was about 12 as I recall. Need to try to find all my research on this. May take a while after moving 4 months ago. I recall coming up with serial numbers on around 10 but I'll have to check.  One sold on Gun Broker a while back and I added it to my records. My thoughts are there should be more out there. If anyone here has one I would appreciate any info on it. Back to my question. Where did Waterman come up with the production number of 10?


IN one of Grant's books.  Probably the one cited.  It's right there on my bookshelf.
  
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slumlord44
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #11 - Nov 3rd, 2020 at 11:26pm
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Thanks for the reply. That was one of my references. I had thought you might have possibly had another source. There is very little information on this model. Wish I could find more. Always looking for info on it and another example.
  
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waterman
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #12 - Nov 4th, 2020 at 3:38am
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slumlord44 wrote on Nov 3rd, 2020 at 11:26pm:
Thanks for the reply. That was one of my references. I had thought you might have possibly had another source. There is very little information on this model. Wish I could find more. Always looking for info on it and another example.


A Parker-Hale liner in what was probably a very good Stevens Bisley is just a good example of BritThink.  Circa 1911, no American firm could possibly make an accurate .22 rimfire barrel, certainly not an outfit that called themselves "J. Stevens A&T Co."
  
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Fred Boulton
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #13 - Nov 4th, 2020 at 7:20am
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What rubbish! US rifles have always been highly regarded here. Most rifles found with the Parker sleeving system were lined because the early .22 ammo was highly corrosive. Forget to clean your barrel and it would convert itself into a .177 over night.
Fred
  
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #14 - Nov 4th, 2020 at 1:39pm
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Fred - I am not sure I am following you. What exactly is rubbish?
  

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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #15 - Nov 5th, 2020 at 11:35am
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The previous post to mine.
What the blazes is "Brit think"?
Fred
  
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #16 - Nov 5th, 2020 at 1:41pm
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I was not aware that you live in England.
  

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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #17 - Nov 7th, 2020 at 12:31am
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What the blazes is "Brit think"?

For several years I worked for a company out of England, for us damn "Yanks" we didn't "think" like they did.  Not nearly as structured and refined, got harassed,verbally abused and even threatened - until I made the comment once that we'd kicked their butts 200 years before and we'd do it again on this soil if need be.   They liked our revenue generated so they allowed me free reign, ignoring their "Brit Think" and I'm told they blamed me for some of the "Damn Yank" ideas they still use - today.
Greg
  

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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #18 - Nov 7th, 2020 at 6:55am
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Landis’ book on .22 rifle shooting indicates that a serious smallbore shooter using the Lesmok and Semi-Smokeless target ammunition of the day would wear out his gilt-edged barrel from the necessary cleaning in a half-dozen seasons or so.

I would not be surprised to see a liner in such a target rifle, or, for that matter, modifications to the stock.  People used the things their hard-earned money purchased the way they wanted to use them, back in the Good Old Days.  No “Safe Queens” or “Investments” in the gun line back then.
  
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #19 - Nov 13th, 2020 at 12:53am
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Don't remember where I read this so here goes. Story was that folks liked the A.J Parker or Parker Hale liners for their accuracy. So it wasn't uncommon for someone with a new 22rf target rifle to send it in to have the new barrel relined. FWIW. By the same token I knew a gunsmith that did a land office business rebarreling center fire rifles. Folks would send in a brand new rifle after testing it and found the accuracy wanting. I've got a brand new Remington Sendero barrel in 308 sitting on my shelves. I could never get the same accuracy from my Sendero in 308 that I can easily get from a 30-06. Go figure. Frank
  
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #20 - Dec 20th, 2020 at 10:14pm
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I have seen one ,  serial # 52 at a gun show may be 2 yrs. ago
possibly previously owned by Mike Roberts I think
  
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slumlord44
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #21 - Dec 20th, 2020 at 11:34pm
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I'm still looking for another one if you have any idea how to get in touch with Mike Roberts.
  
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #22 - Dec 21st, 2020 at 10:12am
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.
  

WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. Let's Go Sonny!
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #23 - Dec 21st, 2020 at 7:56pm
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sl44   You won't be getting in touch with Mike Roberts.   
Been dead for years.  A  good guy.
  
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #24 - Dec 23rd, 2020 at 11:48pm
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Looks like I'm a little late. Sorry to hear he has passed.
  
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #25 - Dec 27th, 2020 at 10:27am
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Rubbish is Brit speak for nonsense. 

Boats
  
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #26 - Dec 27th, 2020 at 10:35am
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When I worked in Australia was the Norwegian companies official Australian American interpreter.  Bill of lading clerk in Brisbane called me, could not find “wheely bins” in our tariff. = trash can with wheels.  Use them when taking rubbish to the tip in your Ute 

Must be hundreds of terms that need interpretation 

Boats
  
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #27 - Jan 1st, 2021 at 10:36pm
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I think Waterman was being facetious in quoting what a typical Brit would think about an American manufactured .22 as they ruled the world at that time.  May have been a lend-lease rifle.
  

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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #28 - Jan 2nd, 2021 at 4:45pm
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boats wrote on Dec 27th, 2020 at 10:35am:
When I worked in Australia was the Norwegian companies official Australian American interpreter.  Bill of lading clerk in Brisbane called me, could not find “wheely bins” in our tariff. = trash can with wheels.  Use them when taking rubbish to the tip in your Ute 

Must be hundreds of terms that need interpretation 

Boats


Boats, its the garbo's that take our rubbish to the tip. The wheely bins are used to put the empty tinnies in and then we wheel them to the footpath for collection by the garbo's.  Grin
  
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Jim Hallam (UK)
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #29 - Aug 12th, 2021 at 2:01pm
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Hi
I have #48, which was on loan to the Museum at the NRA Ranges at Bisley for 20 years, until the Chief Exec told the Curator that the Museum owned NOTHING and that everything there could be sold and the funds would go into the general funds of the NRA.

My view is that there were (possibly) 50 made -- - but they were FAR too costly for the parsimonious Brits --  at £5 guineas (about $25 at the time) they were twice as expensicve as the best BSA Martini .22 target rifle.
I know that there is one in Savage's place in Westfield, MA but I have only seen one other --- cut down into a sporter because (at the time) it was "some old Martini .22".

I wonder what it would fetch if I got it to the USA ?

(Apologies for my lousy 2-finger typing)
  
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slumlord44
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #30 - Aug 14th, 2021 at 1:03am
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If you ever get it to the USA I would be interested in buying it. 
  
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #31 - Aug 14th, 2021 at 12:31pm
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Jim, the advert that Rebel posted doesn't look like your rifle as regards the forend.
  
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Jim Hallam (UK)
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #32 - Aug 14th, 2021 at 5:55pm
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The British NRA started a "Journal" in 1910 and I have the first 5 editions --  given to me by the Range Office Superintendant, Harry Eaton.  They were previously the property of L.P. "Doc" Clarke who was really the first person who developed the Musuem at Bisley.
The first one (June 1910) refers to the "miniature rifle movement" as having some 4500 Rifle Clubs most of who shoot (quote) "almost exclusively at short ranges with cartridges of low energy." --  "  100,000,000 cartrsidges per annum, costing £60,000 ....  "  (that's $240,000 --- in 1910!!!)
In that eition is an advertisement from Stevens, announcing that they had "... opened a London House ... 15 Grape St., Shaftesbury Avenue"  right in the centre of London.  They also referred to a link with KING'S NORTON ammunition factory.

Their advert in the second edition (August 1910) advertised the #044 1/2 "English Model" Stevens and the 4th Edition (Oct. 1910) trumpeted "A new Rifle" -- the Stevens "Bisley Model" Martini action ---  no illustration.

The first illustration of one is in the Jan. 1911 issue -- called th e "No.600" and has the standard (basic) fore-end.   The April issue reverts to the "No.700 IDEAL" with Stevens-Pope barrel.

When I get time I will scan these adverts for you.

ATB
Jim H.
  
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Jim Hallam (UK)
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #33 - Aug 14th, 2021 at 6:05pm
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"Rebel"'s scan shows the early pattern ---  but I missed the reference to a horn fore-end cap --- a closer look at the advert shows it.
The barrels are DEFINITELY Stevens -made -- - and somewhere (my memory!!!) there is a reference to the riflling being specially for the Kings Norton ammunition --- understandable if Stevens' London agency had a business arrangement.

I just wish that I had  more time at present but ... ... ...
  
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #34 - Aug 15th, 2021 at 12:48pm
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If you were going to make the Bisley for export to the UK, making a batch of 50 seems to make more sense than just 10.  But pricing them at twice what their UK-made competition was selling them for doesn't seem to be a grand marketing scheme.

But this is the same time period that Stevens was marketing Stevens-Pope schuetzen rifles and those were as pricey as any non-engraved factory rifles.
  
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slumlord44
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #35 - Aug 15th, 2021 at 9:47pm
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Glad to see more info coming out on these. While 50 may be a good number I recall coming up with 1,2, and 3 digit serial numbers. I would have to dig back through my research to be certain. 10 has always seemed too low a number to me.
  
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Re: Stevens Model No. 600, Bisley Model
Reply #36 - Aug 16th, 2021 at 12:06pm
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Has anyone measured dimensions on the Stevens actions?  And compared them with other actions of known make?
  
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