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mdwallace
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Reloading a 22 hornet Stevens 417 Walnut Hill
Oct 12th, 2020 at 1:51pm
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I picked up a Stevens 417 in 22 Hornet at a recent gun show and from what I'm finding online off the shelf ammunition may be too much for it.  The gentleman I bought it from gave me the load information he was using for it as well as 34 of his loads but I figured I would get some more opinions to muddy the waters.  He was using WW cases with a federal 200 primer, 8 grains of Little Gun under a 40 gr Hornady Vmax.  He was getting a half dime sized group of 3 at 30 yards with it.  Ive heard of people using small pistol primers in 22 Hornet but not small magnum pistol primers.  Would this be at a low enough pressure not to ruin the gun?  Would it be better to use a cast bullet at around 1500 fps?  Anyone have a preferred load for this rifle?

Thanks in advance.
  
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BudHyett
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Re: Reloading a 22 hornet Stevens 417 Walnut Hill
Reply #1 - Oct 12th, 2020 at 2:12pm
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If the loads work, use them as a baseline.  I love the cartridge in this velocity range as it is fun practice at 200 yards.

I've had problems with .22 Hornet Ruger #1 accuracy solved by neck-sized cases and a Bonanza benchrest seating die. I was afraid the barrel would wear out before I found a load until a fellow Hornet shooter said he shot only neck-sized cases. 

QuickLoad shows this load to be in the 18,000 lbs pressure range with a velocity just over 2,000 fps.

In my current prairie dog loading, I am using W-W Magnum Small pistol primers so old they come in a yellow box with a  wooden tray. I have no other use for these primers, a gift, and they are working fine. 

Normally, I use Remington 6 1/2 primers and the bullet is a 35 grain Berger MEF. The powder is W-W 680 at 11.6 grains for 2550 feet-per-second.
« Last Edit: Oct 12th, 2020 at 2:27pm by BudHyett »  

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beltfed
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Re: Reloading a 22 hornet Stevens 417 Walnut Hill
Reply #2 - Oct 12th, 2020 at 2:54pm
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I have used the Fed 200 primer in my No 3 Hornet and a formerly owned Savage 23d..
It is labelled a "small rifle/H\high vel. pistol primer.
It worked well back in the late '80s for my "PD"(prairie dog) loads with modest WW 296 powder loads.
And, YES, neck size only.
Nowadays I would definitely try Lil Gun. Hmm, 
maybe I will get out the stuff and do that even tho I have no current PD hunting plans. 
beltfed/arnie
  
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JLouis
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Re: Reloading a 22 hornet Stevens 417 Walnut Hill
Reply #3 - Oct 12th, 2020 at 2:58pm
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Depending on your twist rate a breech seated 22 Hornet can be extremely competitive in Schuetzen benchrest matches. Using a 70 grain spitzer cast 20-1 it can and will shoot 3/8 groups at a 100 yards consistently. It does just as well out to 200 yds at an inch or less using the PRVI brass and the absolute best hornet brass currently being made. Using 10.8 grains of 1680 the average velocity is 2111 fps with Winchester small rifle primers, a 71 grain flat base spitzer. But the pressure is also up there with a Peak of 257, Area of 148, Rise of 94 and max pressure 40,000 psi. Rifle used is a CPA with a 10 inch twist Douglas barrel at 28 inches in length. So be careful working up to it not knowing how much pressure your 44 action can actually take if wanting to give it a try yourself. Load and pressure data collected shooting through an Ohler Ballistic system so real time data and not from a ballistic program but the actual results. Again be extremely careful it might be more than your action can actually safely take.
  

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gewehrfreund
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Re: Reloading a 22 hornet Stevens 417 Walnut Hill
Reply #4 - Oct 12th, 2020 at 3:58pm
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I'll only say that if it were my rifle, I'd only use reduced loads of either cast bullets or jacketed "Hornet" bullets of 45gr or less (and I'd probably use .223 bullets over .224 if I had or could find any).

Since this rifle was made on the weaker 44 action (I believe), there's no sense in hotrodding it. There are plenty of other 22 Hornets out there for that.
I'd also experiment with different primers to see what works best - every rifle is different.
Walnut Hills don't show up every day, so take good care of it.
  
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gnoahhh
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Re: Reloading a 22 hornet Stevens 417 Walnut Hill
Reply #5 - Oct 12th, 2020 at 5:59pm
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Finally, a topic in which I have some insight to share. 

I'm sure that your 8gr. of L'il Gun is mild enough to calm your fears. 11gr. would be more of a standard Hornet load, and it generates very low pressure at that.

I use small pistol primers almost exclusively with all Hornet loads, because they give me a slight accuracy edge. They work in my guns, may not in yours- one way to find out.

I shoot a lot of cast loads too, mainly out of deference to the old barrel steel of my rifles. My favorite "all around" cast load is with the Lee Bator 55gr. (nominal weight) stubby round nose bullet, cast of 10-12bhn alloy, over 6.0gr. 2400. Any old case, neck sized, and CCI or Alcan (yes, Alcan- remember them?) small pistol primers. Accuracy at 50 yards out of my Winchester 54 & German kiplauf (5.6x35R) hovers in the 1/2MOA region. Performance is rather like a .22Magnum rimfire. Squirrels freeze in terror when they know I'm coming. The Bator bullet is stubby enough to stabilize well in the relatively slow twist of vintage .22 Hornet barrels- it's about the same length as the various iterations of the Lyman/Ideal 225438 molds that I have. In any event, size the bullet to fit the throat not groove diameter, and expand case necks to accommodate that diameter. (And anneal the necks every couple of loadings, even if only neck sizing. It'll pay dividends in terms of case life. One batch of brass that has seen nothing but this particular cast load  is still going strong after over 20 firings.)
  
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mdwallace
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Re: Reloading a 22 hornet Stevens 417 Walnut Hill
Reply #6 - Oct 12th, 2020 at 8:33pm
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Do you gas check the cast loads?  Hadn't heard of Alcan, if what I'm finding is right they might have gone out of business around the time I was born (mid 80s).  With it being a 44 action I didn't know what kind of pressure would be an upper limit, figured i would try to keep it under 20,000 cause I don't want to ruin the action.

Honestly I almost walked away from this gun because it was a Hornet and I would have rather had a 22 LR, but he went down another $100 and I figured I could give it a try.
  
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gnoahhh
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Re: Reloading a 22 hornet Stevens 417 Walnut Hill
Reply #7 - Oct 12th, 2020 at 9:08pm
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Yes, gas checks. 

Yes, Alcan defunct for a long time. I was gifted around 10,000 Alcan primers made sometime in the 60's. They work perfectly. Some of my best loads ignite with Alcan primers.

While I think 6gr. 2400 wouldn't bother me if it were my gun (and since I realize now we're talking of a 44 action), I wouldn't go higher. There's always minuscule charges of Bullseye/Red Dot/etc. to consider too. 2gr. Bullseye will return .22LR performance at undoubtedly low pressure. Heck, I load 1.5gr. Bullseye in empty primed .22LR cases when breech seating the little darlings (with soft 225438's un-checked).
« Last Edit: Oct 12th, 2020 at 9:16pm by gnoahhh »  
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Cbashooter
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Re: Reloading a 22 hornet Stevens 417 Walnut Hill
Reply #8 - Oct 12th, 2020 at 9:56pm
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JLouis
2100 fps with 20/1 plainbase breech seat bullet?
Constantly sub .5 MOA ?

That's either amazing or BS Smiley

That's really neat.




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« Last Edit: Oct 12th, 2020 at 10:05pm by Cbashooter »  
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JLouis
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Re: Reloading a 22 hornet Stevens 417 Walnut Hill
Reply #9 - Oct 13th, 2020 at 12:56pm
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Cbashooter its not BS it was a project of Barry Darr's not mine. While he was here staying with us we were going out to range twice a week. So I witnessed those consistently small groups and I also have a stack of his 22 Hornet Ohler43 ballistic printouts and where the posted information came from. Each printout is for a different powder and or primer combination being tested. 

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Cbashooter
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Re: Reloading a 22 hornet Stevens 417 Walnut Hill
Reply #10 - Oct 13th, 2020 at 4:10pm
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JLouis wrote on Oct 13th, 2020 at 12:56pm:
Cbashooter its not BS it was a project of Barry Darr's not mine. While he was here staying with us we were going out to range twice a week. So I witnessed those consistently small groups and I also have a stack of his 22 Hornet Ohler43 ballistic printouts and where the posted information came from. Each printout is for a different powder and or primer combination being tested. 

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I was given you a bad time I've! I've never been a super hornet fan and last month I got A1903 Springfield with a Win 52 barrel set up as a single shot that is averaging under 3/4 of an inch with jacket bullets. 
 

  
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Cbashooter
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Re: Reloading a 22 hornet Stevens 417 Walnut Hill
Reply #11 - Oct 13th, 2020 at 5:55pm
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Were the group shot on paper or just the Oehler?
The reason I ask this is because as I remember they guarantee group accuracy somewhere around a quarter inch or so. When I talk to Oehler a few years ago about it he told me it's basically for testing the accuracy of hunting rifles it's not near accurate enough for target shooters to evaluate group size.
« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2020 at 6:16pm by Cbashooter »  
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JLouis
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Re: Reloading a 22 hornet Stevens 417 Walnut Hill
Reply #12 - Oct 13th, 2020 at 6:33pm
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Cbashooter it is actually both the ballistic system shows the location of every shot on the screen and of course on the print out as well. And every shot is being shot on a hard card target for comparison of what the ballistic system is also showing. The results were remarkably the same and the system Barry purchased was basically the same system Sierra Bullets and others were using at the time. I didn't realize the printout actually showed up, all testing was done with 10 shots and not 5. I don't recall why there were only five on that one at the time.
« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2020 at 6:44pm by JLouis »  

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Re: Reloading a 22 hornet Stevens 417 Walnut Hill
Reply #13 - Oct 13th, 2020 at 8:18pm
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I'm curious why with those  the stellar results with the fast twist breech seat 22 hornet it's not the "standard" people are using shooting matches?
I was in Springfield Or. about 15-16 years ago when Tommy Mason shot a 10 shot group of. .400 at 100 yards and that record still holds in the CBA.
It would seem that hornet should be taking the Schuetzen world by storm?

  
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JLouis
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Re: Reloading a 22 hornet Stevens 417 Walnut Hill
Reply #14 - Oct 13th, 2020 at 8:49pm
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The problem with the 22 Hornet is you cannot see the bullet holes at 200 yards.
  

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