rkba2nd wrote on Aug 5^th, 2020 at 12:47pm:


Yes, at the distances schuetzen or even midrange is shot bullets shouldn't destabilize. But at BP or lighter smokeless levels at longrange 1000 yd. shooting I've seen numerous times when bullets that made nice clean holes at shorter distance went through the paper oblong at long range.
So it depends on the bullet, the velocity, and the distance; not just one of these components. I wont use spire point bullets for long range shooting, and all my loads are in the 1300-1350 fps range.

At that time and place, wonderful scores were made with other than spitzer bullets, no question. My point being that they are no longer used in 1000 yard benchrest matches, where the current record is something close to 3 inches for 10 shots. As I said, like comparing apples and oranges. There must be a sound reason why long range shooters today are using very long (rocket shape) , if you will, bullets as oppoosed to large meplat bullets. If you are trying to replicate what was in use 100+ years ago, rcords are still being broken, but nothing even close to what is being accomplished today. Again, apples and oranges. The same applies to short range benchrest, the distances we shoot, again apples and oranges, albeit the difference is less notable. As J louis, I believe noted, each rifle is different, and one must find what works best in that particular rifle, barrel, cartridge, etc. But, if you don't at least try, you will never know for sure.  Krag

Unfortunately the Indian wasn't very lucky that day.

In regards to comparing today with the past it's really just a lost cause and a waste of time. The rifles have changed, the shooing equipment has changed, the twist rates have changed, the bullets have changed and become longer, the powders have changed, the shooting benches have changed, the quality of the optics have changed and list goes on.

JLouis - As I stated numerous times. Like comparing apples and oranges. The posters question was whether a spire point bullet mould he had would work, so that he did not need to buy another mould. The answere is a resounding yes, or at least worth a try. A lot of people have great success in this game with spire point cast lead bullets. Experimentation is never a waste of time, as is learning from what we have learned and applying some of that to our game. You of all people have demonstrated that experimentation bears fruit.

JLouis wrote on Aug 6^th, 2020 at 4:59pm:


  Those scores are postal matches.

Are these current 3" ten shot groups at 1,000 yds. done with BP, and slower velocities, or are we again comparing modern high velocity bolt guns to old BP velocities?
I'm out of touch I guess, as I haven't seen or heard of 3" ten shot groups in BPCR or similar type shooting. But if this is high velocity ammunition and guns, then I'm not surprised they're shooting spire points.

A little story about elliptical bullets and bullets with a meplat and this pertains to black powder target rifle. Last August, we had a practice day at the Harris range. One of the better black powder target rifle shooters in the country was there and he was shooting elliptical bullets and his favorite load. He was keeping them well centered in the middle of the target and we were shooting at 1000 yards. We were about to wrap up the shooting when he pulled out a half a dozen bullets that another shooter gave him that had a flat meplat. They were from one of the international muzzleloader shooters . Since he was shooting paper patch, all he had to do was pull a bullet out of the case and stick in one of these other bullets. We're all standing around when he asked."what do you think I should do to my come ups"? Nobody had an idea so somebody said just shoot it and we'll see what happens.  He punched a 10. He shot another one and punched an X. He shot his third one and punched another 10. I'm not sure of the order. This was witnessed by at least a half a dozen shooters. So the long story short, there is not a whole lot of difference between the bullet that looks aerodynamic compared to one that has a meplat, at least in black powder cartridge shooting.