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Duplex Loads (Read 2558 times)

Aussie_Hunter Full Member Offline Posts: 193 Location: Hervey Bay,Queensland Joined: Jul 7^th, 2008	Duplex Loads Jul 16^th, 2020 at 6:57am	Print Post
	I am new to the world of "Black" rifle shooting, and ask your help, I have a Low Wall 38-55 that I have been loading with 4.0g AP-70 (Hodgkins equiv Universal) and topped with 42.0g Wano FFF. behind a 265g projectile. I was getting pretty clean bores (especially when using Curtis & Harvey English powder), but now have changed to using the same load but behind a 240g projectile, fantastic accuracy but horrible bbl fouling, is the problem caused by the drop in projectile weight/ lower pressure, or just different powder? I am also loading, for one of our shooting group, 5.0gAP-100 (close to Hodgkins HS-6) with 55.0g Wano FFF in his 45/70 H&R break action rifle behind 300g projectiles, and also getting signifigant bbl fouling shot by shot. I used to be able to shoot at least six shots from my 38-55 without needing to clean when using 265g projectiles, but now appear to need to clean after every second shot, do I need to increase the nitro component to make up for the lower pressures (because of lighter projectiles) or have I completely missed the point? Your huge knowledge pool hopefully may give me the solution, thank any of you that read this,and perhaps answer.


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irish66 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 534 Location: newbraunfels Joined: Apr 7^th, 2007	Re: Duplex Loads Reply #1 - Jul 16^th, 2020 at 10:04am	Print Post
	My only experience with duplex, was 5 grs imr 4759 with 65 grs goex 2 fg black one card wad 535 gr postel in a 45-70 In my 38-55 i shoot straight black goex cartridge with a 330 gr noe slug At 1500 fps. Want to say i would try about 9% smokeless like imr 4227 with 45 grs black and a card wad. Lighter bullet most likely want less powder.


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Jeff_Schultz ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 1603 Location: Ransomville, NY Joined: Apr 25^th, 2004	Re: Duplex Loads Reply #2 - Jul 16^th, 2020 at 4:07pm	Print Post
	"In my 38-55 i shoot straight black goex cartridge with a 330 gr noe slug At 1500 fps". That's fantastic! Fixed or breachseated?

	"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo “There is no situation so bad that it cannot be made worse." Confidence- The feeling you get before you fully understand the situation.
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40_Rod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Extremism in the persuit of accuracy is not a vice Posts: 4285 Location: Knoxville, TN Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: Duplex Loads Reply #3 - Jul 17^th, 2020 at 9:59am	Print Post
	The old saw was 10% smokeless 90% black. But i can remember a match where we weren't told we had to use black until we showed up. They said that Duplex was OK so Jake Simmons came up with the solution. We set up a communal measure that dropped 5 grains of GOEX. We all dropped our regular loads and then dropped the 5 grains of black on top. It was just enough to smoke a little and as I remember we shot pretty god that day. 40 Rod


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GT Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2039 Location: Northeast Wyoming Joined: Jun 28^th, 2015	Re: Duplex Loads Reply #4 - Jul 17^th, 2020 at 5:28pm	Print Post
	40_Rod wrote on Jul 17^th, 2020 at 9:59am: The old saw was 10% smokeless 90% black. But i can remember a match where we weren't told we had to use black until we showed up. They said that Duplex was OK so Jake Simmons came up with the solution. We set up a communal measure that dropped 5 grains of GOEX. We all dropped our regular loads and then dropped the 5 grains of black on top. It was just enough to smoke a little and as I remember we shot pretty god that day. 40 Rod 40 Rod, That is just outside the box I normally think in I'll try that at one of the next shoots where those demands are made... I spent my first 20 years in this sport loyal to black and the last 10 enjoying the nose wrinkles I get when they notice I shoot that modern stinky stuff... Greg

	"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk" T. A. Edison "The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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sharps Participating Member Offline Posts: 35 Joined: Jun 20^th, 2014	Re: Duplex Loads Reply #5 - Jul 17^th, 2020 at 7:05pm	Print Post
	my duplex lds were w/ 45-70 anywhere from 5 to 10 grs of reloader 7 and goex 2f under a 530+ postell style bullet it was compressed, i'd have to check on specs, but didn't really see any major changes in accuracy or fouling, in the 38-55 i just shoot a case full of swiss 1-1/2 slight compression to seat a wad, behind a lyman 255 breach seated bullet & blow tube, good for @ 15 rds, and the bp aggreate at the eau claire scheuztenfest; the lighter bullet may need a lighter load, guess i was lucky my ld for the 45/70 showed promise from the start so i just 'tweated' it as i went along, good luck & best wishes


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Mal Full Member Offline Posts: 220 Location: Adelaide SOUTH AUSTRALIA Joined: Dec 5^th, 2012	Re: Duplex Loads Reply #6 - Jul 17^th, 2020 at 7:11pm	Print Post
	From what I understand the Wano F powders are fireworks grade,I have only used the P grade in straight and duplex loads , shoots very well in the 40/65 and my .30/222 Martini.FWIW . Cheers Mal.


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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Duplex Loads Reply #7 - Jul 17^th, 2020 at 10:02pm	Print Post
	I have shot a lot of duplex. Started with .38-55, .40-65, & .45-70. Normally shot 8 to 10% duplex or slightly less. Usually just enough to clean the bore or slightly more. We shot DCRA rules here in the Pacific Northwest. I don't believe there were any American BPCR rules in those days. The Canadian's limit was 25%. I read an article in American Rifleman saying over 30% risks detonation.

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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George Babits Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1101 Joined: Sep 27^th, 2012	Re: Duplex Loads Reply #8 - Jul 18^th, 2020 at 10:03am	Print Post
	In my 45-70 Sharps I have used 8g of 4759 under 57 grains of GOEX Fg. I can shoot that load all day without fouling using a 420 grain flat nose (Lyman 457193 if I remember right). Haven't had much luck with duplex loads in my 38-55, but probably just haven't found the right combination yet. I always figure to reduce the black powder charge about 2 grains for every grain of smokless. George


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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Duplex Loads Reply #9 - Jul 19^th, 2020 at 7:12pm	Print Post
	.38 Takes a lot more effort than .45 I learned to establish the overall cartridge length first. Learning that took about 50# of powder

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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irish66 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 534 Location: newbraunfels Joined: Apr 7^th, 2007	Re: Duplex Loads Reply #10 - Jul 24^th, 2020 at 8:00am	Print Post
	Jeff_Schultz wrote on Jul 16^th, 2020 at 4:07pm: "In my 38-55 i shoot straight black goex cartridge with a 330 gr noe slug At 1500 fps". That's fantastic! Fixed or breachseated? Fixed, target is scoped at 200 yards


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