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Another Pope question (Read 48207 times)

ledball Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1021 Location: syracuse, ohio Joined: Nov 20^th, 2009	Another Pope question Jul 3^rd, 2020 at 10:58am	Print Post
	Did Stevens actually quite using Pope’s name after he demanded they do so, the last of the Stevens Pope rifles were still marked Pope. Ledball


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18027 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Another Pope question Reply #1 - Jul 3^rd, 2020 at 11:19am	Print Post
	ledball wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2020 at 10:58am: Did Stevens actually quite using Pope’s name after he demanded they do so, the last of the Stevens Pope rifles were still marked Pope. Ledball Yes, but the last of the Stevens-Pope rifles coincided close to the time Pope wrote them, and demanded they stop using his name. There are Stevens schuetzen rifles with higher serial numbers on them, and no "Stevens-Pope" markings on the barrels. I've got one in the low 1700 serial range still marked Stevens-Pope. But most collectors agree anything over around 1350 was done after he left. Real question is how many did they build per year? That would tell us how many were made after he left. And since he sent the letter 2 years after he left, how many were assembled after the letter? My guess is they stopped using the rollstamp when they received Pope's letter. But I doubt they tossed any barrels already stamped.

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waterman Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3002 Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain Joined: Jun 9^th, 2004	Re: Another Pope question Reply #2 - Jul 4^th, 2020 at 4:16pm	Print Post
	I think the question of Stevens and Pope and barrels and 44 1/2 actions is not as simple as that. A few years back, when I began seriously investigating .22 Shorts, I was loaned a Stevens-Pope Schuetzen in nearly new condition. The 44 1/2 action was in the very low 2 digits. Presumably that action originated in the first year of production. The front face of the action had all the markings that would accompany a special order. The Stevens-Pope barrel had a number in the 1400 range. That would make it post-Pope.


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MrTipUp Frequent Elocutionist Offline Quality is to a product what character is to a man Posts: 1402 Location: Indiana Joined: Feb 19^th, 2020	Re: Another Pope question Reply #3 - Jul 4^th, 2020 at 4:38pm	Print Post
	When it comes to investigating what the now-recordless Stevens company did, might have done, or didn't do, hardly anything is ever simple. Bill Lawrence


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18027 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Another Pope question Reply #4 - Jul 5^th, 2020 at 10:02am	Print Post
	Like some other companies, Stevens didn't keep things in order, and often found old parts around the factory, and assembled them later. And this was even more prevalent as certain firearms got near the end of their production. It's likely that someone ordered your 44 1/2 later in production, and the early receiver was discovered sitting under a bench, or wherever. So the early receiver got mated to a 1400 serial number barrel, and sent out. Surely they wouldn't toss an early receiver away just because they were then making higher serial numbers.

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MrTipUp Frequent Elocutionist Offline Quality is to a product what character is to a man Posts: 1402 Location: Indiana Joined: Feb 19^th, 2020	Re: Another Pope question Reply #5 - Jul 5^th, 2020 at 10:40am	Print Post
	I think "deeply speculated on" would be more appropriate than "answered". You might, for example, remember the Great To-Do that Red Setter, I, and others eventually engaged in over what initially seemed a very minor and straightforward task: make a chronological list of all schüetzen-era Stevens catalogs. We tried our best, but I'm not sure we ever did reach a consensus. Bill Lawrence


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ssrifles Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 321 Joined: Mar 23^rd, 2009	Re: Another Pope question Reply #6 - Jul 5^th, 2020 at 11:24am	Print Post
	in case you didn't know,tom rowe is doing a book on stevens,not to be confused with the stevens pope book.he told me he is finding out all kind of great info on stevens and a lot of interesting guns.if you have some rare or hi condition or good info contact him so it can be recorded and not lost to history. tony <><


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ledball Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1021 Location: syracuse, ohio Joined: Nov 20^th, 2009	Re: Another Pope question Reply #7 - Jul 5^th, 2020 at 11:49am	Print Post
	Until the book is published I’m going to assume that Stevens told Pope to take a hike since there were about eight hundred rifles with Pope’s name on them after he laid his hands on the last barrel. Ledball


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18027 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Another Pope question Reply #8 - Jul 5^th, 2020 at 2:19pm	Print Post
	ledball wrote on Jul 5^th, 2020 at 11:49am: Until the book is published I’m going to assume that Stevens told Pope to take a hike since there were about eight hundred rifles with Pope’s name on them after he laid his hands on the last barrel. Ledball Have there been Stevens-Pope barrels noted with serial numbers up around 2150?

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MrTipUp Frequent Elocutionist Offline Quality is to a product what character is to a man Posts: 1402 Location: Indiana Joined: Feb 19^th, 2020	Re: Another Pope question Reply #9 - Jul 5^th, 2020 at 2:53pm	Print Post
	Stevens told Pope to take a hike According to Harry's own words as recorded in "The Old Master: The Story of Harry Pope" (John Scofield; The American Rifleman, June, 1941), Harry left Stevens voluntarily, at the end of December, 1905, to restart his own business. Bill Lawrence


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ledball Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1021 Location: syracuse, ohio Joined: Nov 20^th, 2009	Re: Another Pope question Reply #10 - Jul 5^th, 2020 at 5:25pm	Print Post
	I think the Stevens Pope serial numbers stop in the mid 1900’s but don’t have the least idea what year that would have been. Ledball


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18027 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Another Pope question Reply #11 - Jul 5^th, 2020 at 8:13pm	Print Post
	ledball wrote on Jul 5^th, 2020 at 5:25pm: I think the Stevens Pope serial numbers stop in the mid 1900’s but don’t have the least idea what year that would have been. Ledball That's what I've read also. I've also read Pope left around serial number 1325-1350. And his letter to Stevens telling them to stop using his name was around two years after they broke ties. If we only knew what the first barrel number was, then we might be able to at least guesstimate how many were made during his time there. Some say they started numbering from the beginning, and some say Pope started at the next number after his highest Hartford barrel number. So tough to even guess how many they made per year.

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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Another Pope question Reply #12 - Jul 6^th, 2020 at 1:11am	Print Post
	marlinguy wrote on Jul 5^th, 2020 at 8:13pm: If we only knew what the first barrel number was, then we might be able to at least guesstimate how many were made during his time there. Some say they started numbering from the beginning, and some say Pope started at the next number after his highest Hartford barrel number. So tough to even guess how many they made per year. What was the next highest Hartford barrel number?

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18027 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Another Pope question Reply #13 - Jul 6^th, 2020 at 9:45am	Print Post
	Schuetzenmiester wrote on Jul 6^th, 2020 at 1:11am: What was the next highest Hartford barrel number? According to Claude Roderick and Warren Greatbatch's records it's #411. But that could change if someone who has a higher number came forward to offer theirs? There are also five "H" numbers recorded, which seem to be early barrels that are Hartford, but pre-date his later numbering records. So that would raise the known barrels, to 416 technically. I've heard of (never seen) Pope barrels that were unmarked with his rollstamp. Not sure where they fall into all this?

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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Another Pope question Reply #14 - Jul 6^th, 2020 at 1:31pm	Print Post
	I wonder if they would have kept better records if they had known they would be so famous and we would be so curious?

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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