One dimension of the Pope story that I respect is the fact that he was not much of a self-promoter.

As best I know, A. O. Niedner and Harry Pope were the last of the top schuetzen-era gunsmiths still alive in the early 1950s, so there is indeed truth in stating that longevity contributed to their being so well-remembered.

However, to assert that Harry was "not much" of a self-promoter is debatable.  He wrote a good deal, and if most of it was technical, it was pertinent and useful enough to still be consulted today.  Moreover, he did not object when others wrote admiringly about him; and several times he gave interviews wherein he was quoted often and at length about matters that were autobiographical rather than technical, with a goodly number of personal opinions thrown in.  In other words, whatever else may have moulded Harry's life and fortunes, he did consistently work at keeping "Harry Pope" and his accomplishments before the public.

Bill Lawrence

I never cared before what Pope did in his personal life. None of my business. However, if the rumors I'm hearing now in this thread are true, I have more admiration for him. Pope was a man. Not perfect but certainly a man.

Since we're on the subject- I'm re-reading some of Lucian Carey's fiction based loosely on HMP. While entertaining, I'm left to wonder about some things that crop up in the stories regularly that lead me to wonder if they're based on fact. Specifically the description of Harry's personal deer rifle, a High Wall .30-40 with a punch mark in the stock for every deer he killed (supposedly 22 one-shot kills with two shots for the 23rd). Any validity? If so, where does that rifle reside now, if known?

Rowland himself said that he couldn't tell the difference between Pope or the other top barrel makers of the time.  Pope was absolutely a self promoter, and his fame today is directly related to the fact that he both outlived the others and the early ASSRA promoted him, and covered up his many flaws.

I believe his reputation is overly inflated today.  Although a top shot and barrel maker, there are several others that I like better.  Like athletes of today, I don't care how great they are, if they are low life's in their personal life, I cannot have much respect for them.
Just my thoughts, Cody

Marlinguy
I'm in agreement with you on Pope's self-promotion abilities. It was one of his strong suits. Being a top-tier shooter on the Schuetzen circuit helped keep his name in the shooting public's eye. He was a consistent winner in the old matches, not necessarily first place but in the in the top 5-10 finishers. When a big tournament had 100-plus competitors, Pope finished in-the-money at most events. That showed off not just his shooting skills but the quality of his barrels and loading gear and he played it to the hilt. If he had not been one of the best known names in the Schuetzen game, why would the Stevens Co. have hired him to launch a Stevens-Pope product line?

My earlier comments regarding Mr. Popes history may have been written a little too loosely and therefore confusing. When I stated he was not a big “ self promoter “ I made an oblique comparison to Keith and Donaldson.  My intentions were to draw on this comparison and in so doing highlight the obvious differences between Mr. Pope and these and other later day ‘ self promoters ‘ . So in essence the term ‘ self promote ‘ is perhaps where I muddied the waters

My interpretation of Self Promotion is one where a person brags or promotes him or herself for purposes of advancement or acceptance. My readings of Pope ( admittedly shallow compared to many on this site ), was that he was primarily promoting his products and business. Of course I’m sure he was more than capable of patting himself on the back, but as a rule I’m doubtful. With a one man shop built on one man’s name the idea of promotion can get kind of fuzzy but I still think he was primarily advertising his product and services like gunsmiths and top shooters do today. 

Example: Randy Wright offers us a book on Schuetzen and in promoting this publication he tells us it is the best book out there on the subject, succinctly written, well documented and profusely illustrated. To my way of thinking he is not self promoting but only promoting his work or product. Now had he said the book is great and I’m the greatest writer and the best shooters come to me for advice, we’ll then you get my point. Just finger through any gun magazine and the pages are full of adds promoting the best or better than any products. It’s marketing. 

But when you read some of Keith’s writings you soon realize all the witnesses are probably dead so you will never know if he really was responsible for this gun design or Winchester‘s great so and so as there is nobody left to ask.  All you know is that it was his creation or idea and somebody else got credit for it. Same with Donaldson who seems to have had his hand in no telling how many cartridge designs. Neither of these writers were trying or could have been involved in marketing most of these claims, not possible. It was bragging rights which inflates a persons credentials or reputation and which also drives sales.  I may be wrong but I’ve not read Pope this way. Telling fellow shooters that Pope barrels and services were the best is just good marketing especially at the matches. 

So did Pope actually say that he had a MIT degree or did somebody else

burntwater wrote on Jul 9^th, 2020 at 3:41pm:


Pope claimed to be an engineer, and a graduate of MIT. I've never read anything that quotes Pope as saying he had a degree in engineering from MIT. But the inference of stating he was an engineer and graduate of MIT sort of implies this without outright stating it.
Playing with words can allow one the ability to defend a not quite truthful statement, should anyone ever challenge it.
But Ray Smith states more than once in hos book that Pope was an engineer, and graduate of MIT, so he helped document this statement also.