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Bulseyetom
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What grade of black for 40-70 SS
Jun 11th, 2020 at 6:23pm
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I know that every rifle is going to be different but was wondering what everybody else might be using in their 40-65's and 40-70's.  I have been using Swiss 1.5 and 3f with both paper patched and gg bullets in my 40-70 with bullets 330 grains give or take.  I am a hunter but strive for accuracy.  I am using an MVA rear and a Shaver front.  My old eyes cannot see as good as they once could but I am shooting under 2 moa most of the time.  Now I am about out of powder and was going to order some more but really don't have enough rounds behind me to see a distinct difference in groups between the 1.5 and 3f.  I am using a 10% duplex load with Re 7.  Should I try 2f?  How about Old Enysford?  I am not a large volume shooter so the price difference is not significant but if it works as good as Swiss and I am not trying to shoot competition it certainly looks like I should try.  What grade of Old Enysford?  I have to order online as nobody around has a license to handle black.  Thanks for your suggestions.  Tom
  
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DocRock
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Re: What grade of black for 40-70 SS
Reply #1 - Jun 11th, 2020 at 6:40pm
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I can't say what will work best in your rifle, but I can share some experience. 

I shoot 45-70, PP and GG, with Black Powder, and exclusively use Olde Eynsford 1.5F. I compete with that rifle, but it's all 300 yards and less, so may not tell much. I use a lot of compression, much more than conventional, and have low extreme spreads and an SD of 11, which is good enough for me. 

I recently got into a Mauserbuchsen, single shot, in 9.5x47R, .375" grooves. And I tested with OE 2 Ffg and 1.5 F. Despite the 360 bore, this rifle didn't want to shoot 2Ffg at all. It was remarkable how much better light compression 1.5F was with both PP and greasers. The difference between groups and patterns.

So, this sort of flies in the face of conventional wisdom that suggests 2Ffg starts to deliver improvements at .40 cal. If you were getting 2MOA groups with 1.5F, I see no reason to change. As to Swiss vs OE, I have used both and I am not a good enough shooter, or do not shoot at long enough range to see a clear advantage for Swiss, but folks that shoot better and longer than I do swear by Swiss.

In other words, clear as mud.  Undecided
  
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Ranch13
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Re: What grade of black for 40-70 SS
Reply #2 - Jun 11th, 2020 at 7:35pm
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My 40-70 likes Olde Eynsford 1.5.
  
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westerner
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Re: What grade of black for 40-70 SS
Reply #3 - Jun 11th, 2020 at 10:13pm
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Long time ago a old shooter told me to stay away from the 40-70. Said they're finicky about what grade BP they liked. Mighty glad I don't have one.
  

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Re: What grade of black for 40-70 SS
Reply #4 - Jun 12th, 2020 at 6:20am
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I shoot both 1.5 but for duplex, Swiss works better.
  
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John Boy
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Re: What grade of black for 40-70 SS
Reply #5 - Jun 12th, 2020 at 9:18am
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Though 1F it is not available except cannon powder, Curtis and Harvey loading data lists it for 45 caliber reloads ... (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
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Ranch13
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Re: What grade of black for 40-70 SS
Reply #6 - Jun 12th, 2020 at 11:33am
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Olde Eynsford is available in 1f, and works very well in the 40-90 bn, and the 45 2 7/8. 
It seems the 40-70 is a very picky round, but once you get a load dialed in it's as good as any of the smaller 40 cal rounds.
I shot a lot of Swiss 1.5 in this rifle and the best it would do was about a 3ft group at 600. OE it will shoot at a minute or less.
Roberts Schuetzen rifle book mentions the 40-70 st in that it could be difficult to get to shooting well, but once you found the load it would do well..
  
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ndnchf
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Re: What grade of black for 40-70 SS
Reply #7 - Jun 12th, 2020 at 1:29pm
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I'm not implying that the .40-70 BN will be the same as .40-70 SS. But in my .40-70BN, Goex 2F worked quite well.

  
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Mal
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Re: What grade of black for 40-70 SS
Reply #8 - Jun 12th, 2020 at 7:52pm
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Wano 1P it’s called in Aus. Not sure how it is branded in the US !! 68 to 70 gns B/S  shoots as tighter groups as Swiss 1.5 in my 40/65 Roller , Brooks 2 dia. 380 ish gn bullet. Mal.
  
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kenysd
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Re: What grade of black for 40-70 SS
Reply #9 - Jun 13th, 2020 at 11:30am
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reading Freunds book. he loved the 40's and a lot were 40 70 ss.
  he recommended 2f way back in the day.

    I use 1 1/2 Swiss in mine.  measures great and compress to about 1/8 or less.

  
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Re: What grade of black for 40-70 SS
Reply #10 - Jun 23rd, 2020 at 9:40pm
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How about this 5 shot group from my 40-65 .
74.5 gr swiss 1.5 under my 371gr DDEPP bullet.
Will shoot accurately to 1K if I do my part.
beltfed/arnie
  
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SSShooter
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Re: What grade of black for 40-70 SS
Reply #11 - Jun 30th, 2020 at 10:30pm
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westerner wrote on Jun 11th, 2020 at 10:13pm:
Long time ago a old shooter told me to stay away from the 40-70. Said they're finicky about what grade BP they liked. Mighty glad I don't have one.

In the years I've been shooting BPCR/BPTR (10+) I've known half-a-dozen decent shooters who have tried the 40-70SS. Not one of them has stuck with the cartridge even though a couple tried for as long as three years. 

Only person I've ever heard of who won a few matches with one is Mike Venturino back when BPCR first started and scores were considerably lower. Once people started to learn, the 45-70 and 40-65 pretty much took over and are, by far, the most popular and easy to get to shoot well to this day. A couple of good 38cal shooters and a couple of good 45-90 shooters, but 80% of folks at the nationals will be shooting either the 45-70 or 40-65 for good reason.
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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