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Scraper Grooves on Black Powder Bullets (Read 11031 times)

JS47 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1265 Location: Arizona Joined: Oct 12^th, 2012	Scraper Grooves on Black Powder Bullets May 7^th, 2020 at 3:52pm	Print Post
	Do any of you know if it's ever been proven that a scraper groove helps clean out the fouling from the previous shot? It sounds logical but does it really work? JS


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calledflyer Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3559 Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: Scraper Grooves on Black Powder Bullets Reply #1 - May 7^th, 2020 at 4:02pm	Print Post
	If the thing keeps shooting without any additional buildup, my mind tells me it must be working.


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JS47 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1265 Location: Arizona Joined: Oct 12^th, 2012	Re: Scraper Grooves on Black Powder Bullets Reply #2 - May 7^th, 2020 at 5:16pm	Print Post
	calledflyer wrote on May 7^th, 2020 at 4:02pm: If the thing keeps shooting without any additional buildup, my mind tells me it must be working. I should have added that I'm going to order a BP bullet mold and am wondering if I should add a scraper groove.
	« Last Edit: May 7^th, 2020 at 8:00pm by JS47 »

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calledflyer Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3559 Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: Scraper Grooves on Black Powder Bullets Reply #3 - May 7^th, 2020 at 6:56pm	Print Post
	Ah! In that case, I'm going to have to pass. I'm not the man to ask about bullet design. I don't shoot any of that Beep powder anyway.


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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Scraper Grooves on Black Powder Bullets Reply #4 - May 7^th, 2020 at 9:21pm	Print Post
	Is it by chance a wiper band that you might be referring too? Never heard or have I seen a scraper band so just a bit curious.

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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JS47 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1265 Location: Arizona Joined: Oct 12^th, 2012	Re: Scraper Grooves on Black Powder Bullets Reply #5 - May 7^th, 2020 at 9:53pm	Print Post
	JLouis wrote on May 7^th, 2020 at 9:21pm: Is it by chance a wiper band that you might be referring too? Never heard or have I seen a scraper band so just a bit curious. It's a groove just ahead of the front band. The front edge of the band is the back edge of the groove. Hopefully I'm describing it so that you can visualize it. The theory is that the groove provides a place for the fouling to be deposited as it is scraped off the bore by the front band. I suppose the band I'm describing is the wiper band you refer to. I've seen at least one old Lyman mold with the feature. My question is: while it seems like a good idea, has it ever been proven to be of any benefit and should I incorporate it in a new mold design? I'm a little doubtful myself. JS
	« Last Edit: May 7^th, 2020 at 9:59pm by JS47 »

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MartiniBelgian Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1674 Location: Aarschot Joined: Jun 7^th, 2004	Re: Scraper Grooves on Black Powder Bullets Reply #6 - May 8^th, 2020 at 1:51am	Print Post
	I once ordered such a bullet, and came to the conclusion that it doesn't do much if anything. After all, on most bullets, the front band is also a bit of a scraper. Better to use it as an additional lube groove, better with BP. OTOH, I do believe a bore-dia. lube groove is much more useful as in 'prelubing' the bore for the groove-diameter section.


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art_ruggiero Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1083 Location: CT Joined: Dec 14^th, 2008	Re: Scraper Grooves on Black Powder Bullets Reply #7 - May 8^th, 2020 at 10:44am	Print Post
	i think an over powder wad serves as a bore scraper. art


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Flatlander Oldtimer Offline Posts: 600 Location: Warm Arizona Joined: Apr 24^th, 2004	Re: Scraper Grooves on Black Powder Bullets Reply #8 - May 8^th, 2020 at 11:44am	Print Post
	I believe the once popular NEI 349C had a scraper groove. Shot very well. Don't know if it would be as good without it. Flatlander

	NRA Life ASSRA Member 3197 Charcoal Burner
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SSShooter Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2917 Location: Southern NJ Joined: Aug 1^st, 2010	Re: Scraper Grooves on Black Powder Bullets Reply #9 - May 8^th, 2020 at 3:28pm	Print Post
	I only shoot BP in guns designed for BP. At least a few 10s-of-thousands of rounds, few hundred matches and many fellow competitors................... and I've never heard of anyone of them casting and shooting a bullet with a 'scraper groove'. However, never say never. If you do end up shooting one, let us know the results.

	Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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OLD TUCK Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 469 Location: Middleborough MA Joined: Oct 5^th, 2017	Re: Scraper Grooves on Black Powder Bullets Reply #10 - May 8^th, 2020 at 5:40pm	Print Post
	When I first got into shooting and casting the older folks I came to know called them "Dirt Catcher Grooves" Seemed to make sense to me so I never questioned the Title. Still do when I think about it. I have never had any noticable effect from them that I could detect. If the bullet shape and diameter was correct and they were cast well with good loads they shot good. FITZ. OLD TUCK


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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Online Posts: 2261 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: Scraper Grooves on Black Powder Bullets Reply #11 - May 8^th, 2020 at 6:10pm	Print Post
	I'm pretty sure that Paul Matthews wrote about scraper bands in one of his many books on black powder shooting. I'm, not going to re-read them all now so I can't tell you which book or what he thought of them. I also read about them once in one of Steve Garbe's "Center Shot" articles. I've never tried a bullet with them as it seems like a weird idea to me. Chris.


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calledflyer Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3559 Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: Scraper Grooves on Black Powder Bullets Reply #12 - May 8^th, 2020 at 6:34pm	Print Post
	mostly, they just look like the nose on something like the Keith designed pistol bullets. Just a shelf to plow the way along the barrel, catching crud as it went along. I've known about them for a long time= probably some of us have evens shot them without knowing they were there. I can't tell they ever helped any, but I wasn't looking either. I general, I'd just go along with Fitz, he's got it right. I believe some of the old Ideal bullets had scrapers on them but once they made the transition into the smokless age the need to call them that went away with the nasty buildup.


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nuclearcricket Oldtimer Offline Posts: 745 Joined: Oct 15^th, 2008	Re: Scraper Grooves on Black Powder Bullets Reply #13 - May 9^th, 2020 at 3:01am	Print Post
	I have one of Walts 349C molds but never shot it much. With the current trend of wipeing between shots, its kind of a mute idea. That being stated, if your lube is doing a good job then yes I can see where the scraper/catcher grove would or could offer a bit of an advantage. If nothing else it might prevent the bullet from riding over the fouling in the barrel and pressing it down tight. Not real sure how you would tell if it actually was working or not unless you had 2 identical molds made up, one with and one without the grove. Then fire a long string to see when the accuracy started to drop off. Sam


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MartiniBelgian Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1674 Location: Aarschot Joined: Jun 7^th, 2004	Re: Scraper Grooves on Black Powder Bullets Reply #14 - May 9^th, 2020 at 4:40am	Print Post
	In my case, filling the scraper groove wih lube (manually, as it wouldn't stay on when pan-lubing) helped accuracy, this with a GG bullet in a 577-450 military Martini, blowtubing between shots. And using soft lead as a scraper material, when you think about it, doesn't really seem a good idea... If the front band rides over the fouling, why should it be different with a groove in front? Enough effective lube works much better in my experience, so, I'll prefer the space for an extra lube groove every time.
	« Last Edit: May 9^th, 2020 at 5:09am by MartiniBelgian »

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