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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Casting Problem - SOLVED! (Read 13404 times)
hepburnman
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Casting Problem - SOLVED!
Apr 13th, 2020 at 6:02pm
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I had a previous topic on my issue that seems to have been deleted. There, I was discussing how I could not get my Saeco #740 mold (casts a .410" dia., 409 gr bullet) to fill out completely on one side. The bands here where rounded and not real sharp.

I had tried everything to get this mold to cast properly (it always required casting at least 30 bullets before the bullets would fill out completely and this was after the mold heated up by sitting on top of the furnace or heated with a torch). Even while casting, slight breezes seemed to cool one side of the mold. I thought I had a contamination issue, vent lines not wide enough, bevel at the top not sufficient, too low a temp, etc. You name it.

I had all but given up when I thought that I'll crank the temp all the way up on the furnace that I use for this mold (24/1 alloy), or ~825 F, and try and cast as fast as I could when the mold appeared to be sufficiently heated. I would cut the sprue the moment it solidified and also not hold the ladle to the mold any longer than enough time for the lead to run into it. Clear the mold and refill as fast as possible. Low and behold the bullets started filling out completely! 

I normally wait a few seconds after the sprue solidifies and hold the ladle to the mold for a few seconds too with my other molds, but this mold like to be real hot.

I have now switched alloys between my two pots and the Lyman one, which I will now use for this mold, can reach 1,000 F! I'll probably cast at 875 or 900 F with this mold in the future. My RCBS pot can only go ~825 F and this will now be used for my 16/1, 429 gr, custom bullet based on a Postel/Snover nose and micro-money bullet grease grooves.

Just goes to show that some problems may require more than one change to correct. This one required not only a higher temp but also a faster tempo. Pheew!  Cheesy
  
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JLouis
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Re: Casting Problem - SOLVED!
Reply #1 - Apr 13th, 2020 at 9:28pm
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Just keep an eye on the temp. and don't let it get to high. You don't what the lead to vaporize and then breath the funds. And if it also gets to hot it will burn off the tin. This will leave a shade of orange and a bit of crust on the top. As long as you stay around 825 give or take you should be fine and where I always cast at. I have also had myself checked for an over abundance of lead and to date it's not been an issue.
  

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MartiniBelgian
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Re: Casting Problem - SOLVED!
Reply #2 - Apr 14th, 2020 at 3:07am
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What are you using to measure the temp?  Typical Lead thermometers are not very accurate, so it might be that your real alloy temp is quite a bit lower...
  
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beltfed
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Re: Casting Problem - SOLVED!
Reply #3 - Apr 14th, 2020 at 11:11am
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Get or build a PID to control the temp.
"been there done that" with a couple of molds
that like to have poor body fillout on one half.
I found that I can  pour from the "front" of the mold
kind of in line between the mold halves to get good fillout all around the bullets.
Tip handle up/blocks down, join the dipper to the sprue plate and tip down to horizontal  slowly.
I have been pouring lead for over 60 years. 
Temp about 750F for all alloys/molds I am using.
Tipping and pouring technique varies with several of my close to 100 molds. Just got to experiment. 
beltfed/arnie
  
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OLD TUCK
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Re: Casting Problem - SOLVED!
Reply #4 - Apr 14th, 2020 at 11:15am
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Keep an eye on the Lead when you get it a little low in the Pot. Many years ago I used an electric Pot that just ran flat out, held about 20 Lbs. But when it got down about 2" from the top it could and would bring the lead to a low BOIL! once I recognized that I kept a few ingots on the top back edge and would slip one in
and already being hot they would melt in almost instantly and I could get right back to Casting. Getting a good casting process going has always worked well for me. No distraction, just get going and no looking the bullets over and rolling them around on the towel. That just allows the Mold to lose temperature and then you start seeing bases that are not quite filled out. I never had the one that has been posted with one side not filling out, but I use almost all Nose pour and so when I break the sprue off I roll the mold over and glance at the base, if I see any thing out of the normal it goes back in the pot. I now use a Gas pot and know just about where to set the flame for good bullets. I do know when I have it right when I get going and get slightly frosted bullets and occasionally indications that Vent lines are trying to cast. When you start casting vent lines you KNOW you cannot cast that cavity any better. Well all for now. Regards FITZ.
OLDTUCK Smiley
  
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RSW
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Re: Casting Problem - SOLVED!
Reply #5 - Apr 14th, 2020 at 11:43am
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Hope I'm not hijacking this thread but since PIDs were mentioned . . .
can anyone recommend a commercially available PID controller for bullet casting? 
I have 3 lead pots, they still work great although all pre-date the PID revolution.
Thanks
  

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oneatatime
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Re: Casting Problem - SOLVED!
Reply #6 - Apr 14th, 2020 at 11:44am
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Old Tuck had the answer. Gas pots.
  
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JLouis
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Re: Casting Problem - SOLVED!
Reply #7 - Apr 14th, 2020 at 11:44am
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I totally agree with you Fitz a little frosting on the bullets is a real good thing. For those who might feel it is bad thing I would encourage you to  give them a try. Myself and Barry were casting bullets late one day and I turned the pot on high instead of off.  When we got up the next morning the top of the alloy was orange and all crusty and a sign the tin had been burning off.
  

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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Casting Problem - SOLVED!
Reply #8 - Apr 14th, 2020 at 4:34pm
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RSW wrote on Apr 14th, 2020 at 11:43am:
Hope I'm not hijacking this thread but since PIDs were mentioned . . .
can anyone recommend a commercially available PID controller for bullet casting? 
I have 3 lead pots, they still work great although all pre-date the PID revolution.
Thanks

I was going to make one but Midway had the RCBS on sale during RCBS rebate period for about the same price as the parts  Undecided  I just bought it during the free shipping days.
  

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hepburnman
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Re: Casting Problem - SOLVED!
Reply #9 - Apr 14th, 2020 at 4:36pm
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I did have an issue where my thermometer was not calibrated and I think this led to some confusion in trying to resolve my bullet fill-out issue. Thinking back I always had my RCBS pot turned all the way up when I casted with this mold and it was still problematic then too as the mold took a long time to heat up and any slight variation (slight wind, slow down in casting) showed itself in the next casted bullets. 

Now with my thermometer somewhat calibrated, and it now reading ~825 F with this same pot turned up, this mold was still not casting right and I found I had to speed up my casting rhythm to get this finicky mold to fill out. This is completely different from my PJ molds where I can wait several seconds after the sprue hardens before cutting it, and I can also hold the ladle to the mold for several seconds as well without the mold cooling too much.

Actually, I was always under the impression that holding the ladle to the mold longer actually helped to heat the mold but in fact, as I have learned here, this is not the case. The mold will heat faster, stay hotter, the sooner you can fill it again. Roll Eyes
  
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hepburnman
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Re: Casting Problem - SOLVED!
Reply #10 - Apr 14th, 2020 at 4:41pm
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When it comes to PID controller types does anyone know of a model that you just plug your furnace/pot into, rather than having to open the furnace up and connect the PID that way? 

I ask this because I have a glass-blowing kiln that has a PID that the plug from the kiln plugs into it and the PID just turns the pot on and off as needed. This type would be good if you have multiple pots and you would just need one PID no matter how many pots you had.  Wink
  
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hepburnman
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Re: Casting Problem - SOLVED!
Reply #11 - Apr 14th, 2020 at 4:45pm
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beltfed wrote on Apr 14th, 2020 at 11:11am:
Get or build a PID to control the temp.
"been there done that" with a couple of molds
that like to have poor body fillout on one half.
I found that I can  pour from the "front" of the mold
kind of in line between the mold halves to get good fillout all around the bullets.
Tip handle up/blocks down, join the dipper to the sprue plate and tip down to horizontal  slowly.
I have been pouring lead for over 60 years. 
Temp about 750F for all alloys/molds I am using.
Tipping and pouring technique varies with several of my close to 100 molds. Just got to experiment. 
beltfed/arnie


My sprue plate would swing open if I tried this. Therefore, JLouis' spring-clip would be the answer!  Smiley
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Casting Problem - SOLVED!
Reply #12 - Apr 14th, 2020 at 4:50pm
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My experiments indicated a thermocouple ion the mold maintaining constant pout temp will add more consistency than precise melt temp.
  

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Re: Casting Problem - SOLVED!
Reply #13 - Apr 14th, 2020 at 4:56pm
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hepburnman
Go to Auber Instruments site. model WS-1510DPMA, plus a thermocouple probe WRNK-191
bob
  

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Re: Casting Problem - SOLVED!
Reply #14 - Apr 14th, 2020 at 5:04pm
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(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links);

Plug in,hook up thermocouple to the pot.
  

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