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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Casting Problem (Read 13654 times)
Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Casting Problem
Reply #15 - Mar 16th, 2020 at 5:43am
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oldman46 wrote on Mar 15th, 2020 at 11:09pm:
If you have a harbor Freight near you they have an inexpensive thermal heat gun that will tell you the temp of your alloy. I'm getting one next time I go near one in town. That should help guage accurately your alloy temps. I've also opened the holes on my casting ladle and sprue plate to cast long for the caliber bullets. Frank

I bought one of those years ago.  It was not very accurate.  The temp varied with how reflective of the surface of the material was.  Can't remember what the technology was.  May have been infrared?   The reason I bought it at the time was to check my Lyman thermometer's accuracy. The wild and crazy readings were spanning a couple hundred degree range as I recall. 

A 1000 degree thermometer and thermocouple is only about $50.


With my mold temp control, the first bullet out will normally be a keeper  Grin
« Last Edit: Mar 16th, 2020 at 5:59am by Schuetzenmiester »  

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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Casting Problem
Reply #16 - Mar 16th, 2020 at 5:52am
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beltfed,  I will admit I have not spent much time researching alloys or antimony. My experience was mixing LR bullets 50/50 wheel weights and lead. When I was getting ready to go to DCRA BP match at Ottawa in 1995, all of a sudden I couldn't get a decent bullet out of my mold!  Cry

That was about the time they started having stick on wheel weights here.  They had antimony in them and there were a few in the batch I mixed for Ottawa alloy. It took me a while to figure it out and get the mold cleaned.  I can't remember if I pitched the pot and dipper or if I finally got them uncontaminated too. 

I have no idea how much antimony (correction: it was ZINC contamination) was in those wheel weights, but I avoided them like the plague after that. 
« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2020 at 4:28am by Schuetzenmiester »  

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MartiniBelgian
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Re: Casting Problem
Reply #17 - Mar 16th, 2020 at 7:42am
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Most probably zinc contamination,seems some of the stick-on WW are zinc.  And that will cause such problems.
  
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CW
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Re: Casting Problem
Reply #18 - Mar 16th, 2020 at 9:22am
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oldman46 wrote on Mar 15th, 2020 at 11:09pm:
If you have a harbor Freight near you they have an inexpensive thermal heat gun that will tell you the temp of your alloy. I'm getting one next time I go near one in town. That should help guage accurately your alloy temps.  Frank


I think you will find the gun will not read the shiny liquid lead temp. very well. I have one for other reasons but it does not work on my lead pot.
  
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Re: Casting Problem
Reply #19 - Mar 16th, 2020 at 10:45am
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soak the mold in rubbing alcohol 90% stuff,  then use a wooden match to smoke it.   pour slowly and allow the ladle to remain in position on top for a few seconds.  the pressure will allow it to fill.   check the molds air release lines.  are they clogged?   take a razor blade and slowly clear the lines to allow air or MORE air to escape. this probably is the issue.
   I store my molds with a bullet in place in a plastic freezer bag with an elastic around it to keep air out.  No problems...
   Ken
  
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hepburnman
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Re: Casting Problem
Reply #20 - Mar 16th, 2020 at 12:55pm
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Hi Everyone! Thank you for the comments. 

On examining my mould I think I may be seeing something in the corners of some of the the lube-grooves. Not absolutely sure but it is worth trying a cleaning session. I will try the acetone soak and brush these areas with a brass-bristled brush. I'm afraid to use a regular tooth brush as the acetone may melt the bristles. I'm afraid also to boil the mould as water may become trapped in some areas and cause rusting over time.

I have now reamed out the pour-hole in my ladle to try and increase the flow. Its now about 0.190 dia. I did have one pour where I certainly did not have good flow and the bullet was not filled out at the base.

I do not believe I am casting at too low a temp. I use a Lyman thermometer which I confirmed its temp with a digital meter. I will recheck this. I hope I do not have an antimony contamination issue. Will keep my fingers crossed.

I think I have a good casting technique where I dip the ladle down into the melt and stir it a bit and when lifting it out I pour out a small amount of lead and then immediately join it to the sprue hole. I then turn both the mold and ladle to the up position. I leave the two connected for a few seconds and then allow lead to form a puddle over the sprue hole for lead to be sucked into the mold as it cools. I also wait a few seconds for the lead to further cool down before cutting the sprue. My bases are always filled out and sharp-edged. I do get good-casted bullets from a PJ mould of 429 gr, at the same temperature and same thermometer, but this is a different casting furnace and different alloy. So, I think my technique, at least, is good. 

It may be a while before I cast more 410 gr bullets. I've already filled up all of my styro-foam bullet trays as I also recently casted ~1,000 429 gr bullets of 16/1 alloy.

Thanks again for the comments!



 

  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Casting Problem
Reply #21 - Mar 16th, 2020 at 3:11pm
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MartiniBelgian wrote on Mar 16th, 2020 at 7:42am:
Most probably zinc contamination,seems some of the stick-on WW are zinc.  And that will cause such problems.

Thanks for the correction. Jogged my fogging memory.  It was zinc, not antimony that caused the problems.   It was very difficult to clean out the contamination. 

As I recall, the bullets were a bit wrinkly and not filled out.
« Last Edit: Mar 16th, 2020 at 3:26pm by Schuetzenmiester »  

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squibshot
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Re: Casting Problem
Reply #22 - Mar 22nd, 2020 at 1:57pm
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I have a Barnett .32 mold that doesn't fill out reliably on one side. the second band can be noticeably rounded. If you cast left handed like CW said you will see the problem switches sides.  If you cast at a little higher temp you will see the problem diminish. I bet if your lead/tin alloy gets to 850 F. the problem will largely go away. According to "How to cast Bullets" by Ideal "Sometimes a bullet when cast will show grooves clean and sharply formed on one side while the other side will not,this may be changed by tipping the mold from left to right or pouring it right or left handed". "The side of the mold receiving the flood of metal will receive the full impression. The mold may be fitted to closely and the trouble is trapped air."  "To avoid this turn the mould and dipper up slowly." "Keep  the dipper connected for an instant so the shrinking bullet can draw metal from the dipper."
  
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Re: Casting Problem
Reply #23 - Mar 24th, 2020 at 11:55am
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squibshot wrote on Mar 22nd, 2020 at 1:57pm:
I have a Barnett .32 mold that doesn't fill out reliably on one side. the second band can be noticeably rounded. If you cast left handed like CW said you will see the problem switches sides.  If you cast at a little higher temp you will see the problem diminish. I bet if your lead/tin alloy gets to 850 F. the problem will largely go away. According to "How to cast Bullets" by Ideal "Sometimes a bullet when cast will show grooves clean and sharply formed on one side while the other side will not,this may be changed by tipping the mold from left to right or pouring it right or left handed". "The side of the mold receiving the flood of metal will receive the full impression. The mold may be fitted to closely and the trouble is trapped air."  "To avoid this turn the mould and dipper up slowly." "Keep  the dipper connected for an instant so the shrinking bullet can draw metal from the dipper."


Hi- Thanks for the suggestion to turn the mould and dipper upright more slowly. I will try this as well as soaking/cleaning the mould out with acetone. I cannot try the 850 temp as my RCBS furnace maxes out at about 800F. I think some have suggested that the max temp setting can be increased if you remove the adjustment knob and turn a screw that is under neigh but mine does not have this screw. Any suggestions of how to get a higher temp with the RCBS ProMelt furnace (its probably 25 years old). 
  
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Re: Casting Problem
Reply #24 - Mar 24th, 2020 at 12:58pm
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hepburnman wrote on Mar 24th, 2020 at 11:55am:
squibshot wrote on Mar 22nd, 2020 at 1:57pm:
I have a Barnett .32 mold that doesn't fill out reliably on one side. the second band can be noticeably rounded. If you cast left handed like CW said you will see the problem switches sides.  If you cast at a little higher temp you will see the problem diminish. I bet if your lead/tin alloy gets to 850 F. the problem will largely go away. According to "How to cast Bullets" by Ideal "Sometimes a bullet when cast will show grooves clean and sharply formed on one side while the other side will not,this may be changed by tipping the mold from left to right or pouring it right or left handed". "The side of the mold receiving the flood of metal will receive the full impression. The mold may be fitted to closely and the trouble is trapped air."  "To avoid this turn the mould and dipper up slowly." "Keep  the dipper connected for an instant so the shrinking bullet can draw metal from the dipper."


Hi- Thanks for the suggestion to turn the mould and dipper upright more slowly. I will try this as well as soaking/cleaning the mould out with acetone. I cannot try the 850 temp as my RCBS furnace maxes out at about 800F. I think some have suggested that the max temp setting can be increased if you remove the adjustment knob and turn a screw that is under neigh but mine does not have this screw. Any suggestions of how to get a higher temp with the RCBS ProMelt furnace (its probably 25 years old). 



I run mine with a PID.

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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Casting Problem
Reply #25 - Mar 24th, 2020 at 3:40pm
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hepburnman wrote on Mar 24th, 2020 at 11:55am:


Hi- Thanks for the suggestion to turn the mould and dipper upright more slowly. I will try this as well as soaking/cleaning the mould out with acetone. I cannot try the 850 temp as my RCBS furnace maxes out at about 800F. I think some have suggested that the max temp setting can be increased if you remove the adjustment knob and turn a screw that is under neigh but mine does not have this screw. Any suggestions of how to get a higher temp with the RCBS ProMelt furnace (its probably 25 years old). 


Inside the thermostat their may be an adjustment screw. In an old Lyman I have, there is a little screw in the center of the shaft the t-stat know is mounted on. I can't remember if it raised the highest temp, adjusted the temp to the scale on the knob or adjusted the on off differential range. 

If the stat is one that you can take apart and put back, you can slightly bend the bimetal strip the contact that moves to turn the heating element on and off is mounted on. Just a fuzz, it probably will not take much.  Bend it towards the permanently held contact.
  

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Re: Casting Problem
Reply #26 - Mar 24th, 2020 at 4:43pm
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Lots of help here for you . Have you checked the vent lines in the mold with a glass? If obstructed take a fine scribe and from the cavity out clean them to remove any fine lead particles or burrs . Could have been from the original cutting of the mold. A fellow shooter just bought a custom mold from a well known maker and it would not fill out on one side. called and wanted to get advise on it and the suggestion was to check the vents and it turned out to be that. Vent lines may be put on blocks before the cherry  or lathe cutting process. Just one more idea.
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Casting Problem
Reply #27 - Mar 24th, 2020 at 11:20pm
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Vent lines is a good point.  I once had a mold from a well known precision maker.  It would not fill out.  I talked to him a couple times.  He described a casting technique but it would not fill out. I finally used an engraving tool to finely trace a few of the vent lines.  That cured it  Grin  I never did learn to cast without vents  Embarrassed
  

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Re: Casting Problem
Reply #28 - Mar 25th, 2020 at 10:58am
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In regards to electric casting furnaces. I know lots of people use them with great success. It is my experience that a more even consistent heat may be obtained by using a natural gas or propane burner. One that will produce 15000 BTU's is capable of heating a 12 pound pot to over a 1000 degrees.  Single burner cast iron hot plates are very inexpensive. A 40 pound bottle of propane will cast a billion bullets.  If you don't want to be limited by the thermostat this could be the answer.
  
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Re: Casting Problem
Reply #29 - Mar 25th, 2020 at 3:22pm
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Many years ago when I came back to shooting after time in the service I had to start all over again as I had sold all my stuff. Bought what to me was a new Bottom Pour Electric Furnace. Could not get it to Cast as my previous efforts 
had produced. Finally went to Dipper Pouring and setting the control on the hottest level. Did get some reasonable results there. Did notice that the Pot at times would make noise off and on. Being too stubborn buy a Lead Thermometer
I borrowed one and Borrowed an Electricians Meter that you used by Spanning
the power supply chord. Discovered that the Thermostat was coming and going
on and off at Plus and Minus 100 Deg F. Gave the pot away. Bought a Gas System and have never had the issues I had been having. Like my Lead to be Hot and cast frosty bullets. HTH Regards FITZ OLD TUCK Smiley
  
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