Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 Send TopicPrint
Normal Topic Bertram brass, annealing to make it usable. (Read 2062 times)
Dellet
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1089
Joined: May 19th, 2017
Bertram brass, annealing to make it usable.
Mar 13th, 2020 at 11:20am
Print Post  
Against all odds I have had good luck with Bertram brass, including in some chambers that really should be retired.

The difference has been full length annealing, or at least up to the web.

Kind of an old school process, with modern controls. I use my casting pot. This allows setting an exact temperature and anything not submerged in the lead will stay cooler. I use 675.

Clean the brass, insert and fire a primer. This does two things. Fouls the inside of the case with carbon, and prevents air from escaping through the flash hole. This keeps most lead from entering the case. Placed neck first into the lead, the expanding air pushes the lead out.

Rubbing the outside of the case with beeswax prevents lead build up on the outside.

Holding the case head with large pliers also helps dissipate   the heat out of the case head keeping it cooler.

A good set of gloves are a must.

So far no splits or case head separation after 20+ firings of relatively low pressure loads.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
moodyholler
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 697
Location: Blue Ridge
Joined: Oct 11th, 2005
Re: Bertram brass, annealing to make it usable.
Reply #1 - Mar 13th, 2020 at 4:12pm
Print Post  
I read those posts to buy brass EXCEPT Bertram with bursts of humor. I shoot it regularly in my 2830, (lost 1 over the years out of 30 and many reloading,), 25-20SS lost count of the number of loadings out of 300 and lost 10 or so. Doubt if Remington or WRA or any other would fare much better and I have never annealed. Shot some 500/450 no.2 and 450 3 1/4 all with great luck also. Guess I am lucky. . Moodyholler
  
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
Dellet
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1089
Joined: May 19th, 2017
Re: Bertram brass, annealing to make it usable.
Reply #2 - Mar 13th, 2020 at 5:46pm
Print Post  
I have Bertram brass that I have had for at least 30 years, no problems. Have some that I bought within the last couple years that has been a problem. 10-20% lost in first 5 firings.

One of the changes I saw, was some is now listed as "Basic". In General terms that has always meant not formed, trimmed to length or annealed. Some of the basic can not even be formed without splitting.

Zero problems after annealing this way and can keep the heat out of the case head.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16077
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Bertram brass, annealing to make it usable.
Reply #3 - Mar 14th, 2020 at 9:40am
Print Post  
I wont buy Bertram brass, and if I did it would have to be larger case capacity brass, as that's the only Bertram I've not had issue with cases splitting.
My first issue was with 40 rds. of .25-21 Stevens I bought through BACO that were Bertram. I had 75 year old Remington brass I shot until the primer pockets got so loose they wouldn't hold primers. So bought the Bertram and the first firing I lost over 50% of the new brass. I later got some Bertram with a rifle I bought and it was .32 Ideal brass, and had been fired. I was glad to see it was already fired, but on close examination I saw 1/3rd of them had hairline cracks lengthwise. I annealed the rest, and still lost an occasional case, but at least got a few loadings from them.
No more for me.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fred Boulton
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 801
Joined: Jan 6th, 2007
Re: Bertram brass, annealing to make it usable.
Reply #4 - Mar 14th, 2020 at 9:52am
Print Post  
Bertram brass is very good if you anneal it before use. I shoot mainly obsolete calibres and Bertram is sometimes the only option. My 300 Sherwood brass is about 15 years old now and has been reloaded many times. If I neck expanded a new case without annealing, it would split.
Fred
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GT
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2039
Location: Northeast Wyoming
Joined: Jun 28th, 2015
Re: Bertram brass, annealing to make it usable.
Reply #5 - Mar 14th, 2020 at 11:09am
Print Post  
Dellet,
Thanks for sharing these tips!  I am going to try this method on some of my project brass.  I've tried a few other methods that have been working but I like the science behind yours.
Greg
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
waterman
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2831
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Joined: Jun 9th, 2004
Re: Bertram brass, annealing to make it usable.
Reply #6 - Mar 14th, 2020 at 2:49pm
Print Post  
I have had the same experience with Bertram brass as everyone else.  If you don't anneal before firing or even putting it in a case forming die, a lot of it will split.  For me, the split usually came on the first firing.

I tend to do things simply.  Some 10 years ago, I bought 2 boxes of Bertram 28-30s.  IIRC, they fit in the chamber of my Stevens 47/44 without sizing.  Since I breech-seat, I really don't need sizing dies.  I annealed my 40 unprimed Bertram cases the old way, by stacking bricks in a bucket, standing the cases on the bricks and filling the bucket with water until the case heads and webs were submerged.  I did tilt each case, allowing water to enter through the flash hole.  Then I turned out the lights and lit a propane torch.  I heated each case until it started to turn color and then, using a stick, I knocked the case off the brick and into the water.

IIRC, the whole annealing process took less than 20 minutes.  No fancy turntables or any other gizmos.  I let the cases dry in the sun.  They were ugly, very stained.  Several hours in a tumbler with walnut shells left me with shiny stains.  36 of the 40 survived the first firing.  The other 36 are still usable.  And still ugly.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send TopicPrint