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.22-5-40
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Original Sharps bore dimensions?
Feb 28th, 2020 at 9:57pm
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I have a few original .40-21/2" straight (.40-70 straight) paper-patched cartridges of various makes..including some with no headstamp.  On the ones I can pull the bullet with fingers, they are "miking" around .402-.403 over the patch.  Now I have always read the original .40 sharps were nominally .403 in groove dia.  Or am I confusing this dimension with the original Winchester groove dia.?  At any rate, the original Sharps must have had larger bore & deeper groove dia. because I am pretty sure they were not shooting groove dia. paper-patch bullets in their black powder loads.  Any one out there ever slugged a .40 model 74' or 78' Borchardt?
  
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George Babits
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Re: Original Sharps bore dimensions?
Reply #1 - Feb 29th, 2020 at 9:07am
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I have an original Sharps in 40-70 SS and marked 40-2 1/2 on the barrel.   Barrel and receiver serial umbers all match correctly.  The groove diameter is about .414 and the bore about .407.   This is a late Sharps rifle built by Sharps (not Meacham),  probably on a returned carbine frame.   The barrel has 6 narrow lands and a 1 in 20 twist.   The cartridges that came with the rifle are made up from 9.3 X 74R brass.   Careful measurements tell me that this rifle is actually chambered for the 40-70 straight  Ballard.  I had Accurate Moulds cut me a grease groove mould of about 375 grains with a diameter of .415 and am looking forward to shooting it this spring.

Those paper patched bullets would really have to bump up!  but I guess that was pretty standard.

Regards,
George
  
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Quarter_Bore
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Re: Original Sharps bore dimensions?
Reply #2 - Feb 29th, 2020 at 1:09pm
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I used to get confused when I read "Cartridges of the World" I would see the diameter of the bullets that were in the cartridges and assume this was groove diameter of the barrel. Now I know this is not the case for paper patch bullets. For .40-70 the bore was nominally .403" or so with the groove diameter about .008" larger. The rifles were chambered to accommodate the .403 bullet so the neck of the chamber may not allow a full groove diameter bullet seated in a case to enter the chamber. You either need to breech seat or use paper patch bullets and black powder. That's my opinion. For what it's worth.
  
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George Babits
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Re: Original Sharps bore dimensions?
Reply #3 - Feb 29th, 2020 at 2:09pm
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Full diameter grease groove bullet seats just fine.   I'm using fixed ammunition.  There were 35 or 40 loaded rounds that came with the rifle.  I pulled one of the bullets and miked it before ordering the mould.   Also slugged the bore.   I didn't realize that they were 40-70 Ballard straight until I reloaded them and found that there was no way they could be reloaded with the 40-70 SS dies I already had.   I managed to get them reloaded by just neck sizing and using a  mish-mash of various dies for the neck sizing  and  seating.   I'm glad I made notes so I don't have to figure it all out next time.   

George
  
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Longdistance1
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Re: Original Sharps bore dimensions?
Reply #4 - Mar 1st, 2020 at 12:20am
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I have a 59 or a 63 Sharps buffalo rifle in 40-70 SS  groove dia is .4125 with a 1-18 twist  chamber is for a .403 bullet, no way a ..412 bullet seated in case will chamber. Front of chamber is snug on a .413 bullet, 
I also have a Borchardt hunters rifle bbl in 40-50 SS it also has a groove dia of .412 and chamber for .403 bullet, rifleing is pretty good but looks as if the bullet was not taking to it.
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« Last Edit: Mar 1st, 2020 at 12:25am by Longdistance1 »  
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George Babits
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Re: Original Sharps bore dimensions?
Reply #5 - Mar 1st, 2020 at 11:32am
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Interesting;  you have me wondering now if perhaps my rifle was chambered for the Ballard cartridge speciffically so that grease groove bullets could be used.  I always check my reloads to be sure they will chamber and these most certainly do.  Maybe it is the design of the bullet I have.

George
« Last Edit: Mar 1st, 2020 at 1:27pm by George Babits »  
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kenysd
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Re: Original Sharps bore dimensions?
Reply #6 - Mar 4th, 2020 at 1:05pm
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my original 40 70 has a bore of .403.  the grooves, while in great shape, are very shallow.  that is because Sharps were meant to be used with PP bullets. so the Shiloh .408 bore has deep grooves for GG bullets. 
  the old girl can shoot though...but now it's a safe queen and the Shiloh gets range duty.  Ken
  
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