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Sifting smokeless powder (Read 5284 times)

bnice Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1964 Location: Iowa Joined: Nov 30^th, 2006	Sifting smokeless powder Feb 20^th, 2020 at 11:09am	Print Post
	Has anyone tried or know anything on sifting smokeless powders? What are the ups and downs? Ideas on size and of material used. Thinking of how #9 seems to have changed in granular consistency which I think causes weighing and velocity issues.


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18080 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Sifting smokeless powder Reply #1 - Feb 20^th, 2020 at 11:12am	Print Post
	What size screen? Which do you keep, and which do you toss? The powder that goes through the screen, or the powder that stays in the screen? Seems like you'd end up with two very different powders based on granule size.

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John Boy Ex Member	Re: Sifting smokeless powder Reply #2 - Feb 20^th, 2020 at 11:25am	Print Post
	The only powder I "sock" or screen is black powder to eliminate the fines. Smokeless? Never


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Jeff_Schultz ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 1661 Location: Ransomville, NY Joined: Apr 25^th, 2004	Re: Sifting smokeless powder Reply #3 - Feb 20^th, 2020 at 11:53am	Print Post
	Jim Borton and Charlie Dell used to sift powder. I know there was an article about it; probably in the Journal? It wasn't in Charlie's book, I just looked.
	« Last Edit: Feb 20^th, 2020 at 2:22pm by Jeff_Schultz »
	"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo “There is no situation so bad that it cannot be made worse." Confidence- The feeling you get before you fully understand the situation.
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Jeff_Schultz ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 1661 Location: Ransomville, NY Joined: Apr 25^th, 2004	Re: Sifting smokeless powder Reply #4 - Feb 20^th, 2020 at 2:25pm	Print Post
	I found it! Single Shot Rifle Journal Sept.-Oct 2003 page 42 "Sifting Out The Truth of AA-7" by Charlie Dell.

	"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo “There is no situation so bad that it cannot be made worse." Confidence- The feeling you get before you fully understand the situation.
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Bent_Ramrod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1583 Location: Southern Arizona Joined: Feb 8^th, 2006	Re: Sifting smokeless powder Reply #5 - Feb 20^th, 2020 at 3:12pm	Print Post
	I screened Bulk Shotgun Smokeless into Coarse, Fine and Extra Fine as Ned Roberts directed. I wouldn’t think it would do any good with modern dense powders. They are held to narrow ranges of granule size, and don’t crumble to finer sizes with handling or storage.


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BudHyett Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 281 Location: Pacific Northwest, WA State Joined: Jun 25^th, 2011	Re: Sifting smokeless powder Reply #6 - Feb 20^th, 2020 at 3:18pm	Print Post
	marlinguy wrote on Feb 20^th, 2020 at 11:12am: What size screen? Which do you keep, and which do you toss? The powder that goes through the screen, or the powder that stays in the screen? Seems like you'd end up with two very different powders based on granule size. That could be very true. Sifting can give two different burn rates based on the physical characteristics, kernel size, of the powder. Powder manufacturer is not an exact science in that the chemical reaction can go to completion with a slightly different composition of elements. The manufacturers test energy content and burning rate to assure the powder fits within their canister grade specification. Any lot number not within specification is sold to the ammunition makers with the test results. Black powder can be sifted, it is uniform in content, lower in pressure, and the burning characteristics depend on kernel size.

	Country boy from Illinois living in the magical Pacific Northwest
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Sifting smokeless powder Reply #7 - Feb 20^th, 2020 at 3:27pm	Print Post
	I have sifted 32 pounds of MP30O with improved results. Ended up with just two sizes of spheres / burning rates and only about 4 table spoons of waste. Shot all of one size first and then the second and both shot extremely well! The screens a total of three and a bottom pan are quite pricy and the only down fall. They are certified and why they are so high. I actually borrowed them from a friend and if memory serves me right they were a 40, 45, and 50 mesh and the bottom pan. If Jeff has Dell's article hopefully he can verify that as they were the same. One of the powders that you really cannot sift and separate is AA4100 the spheres are already all of the same size and close friend has already tried.
	« Last Edit: Feb 20^th, 2020 at 3:38pm by JLouis »
	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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ledball Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1021 Location: syracuse, ohio Joined: Nov 20^th, 2009	Re: Sifting smokeless powder Reply #8 - Feb 20^th, 2020 at 6:52pm	Print Post
	Charlie Dell was told by Accurate Arms he should stop sifting their powder, that it was dangerous. I helped Charlie with some testing of sifted powder, I don’t recall any improvement in accuracy, although some increase in FPS, was obtained with the very fines. Ledball


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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Sifting smokeless powder Reply #9 - Feb 20^th, 2020 at 7:40pm	Print Post
	I very clearly remember Jim Borton spending time at Charlie's developing loads while using his machine rest and sifted powder. By the end of those tests Jim shot 15 groups that averaged 3/8 of an inch. Shortly there after Jim started shooting 250's and came to Calif. with his wife to spend sometime with us. On one of our shooting outings is when Jim bettered CW Roland's record and the first one to do so. If memory serves me right that powder was sifted H108.

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Sifting smokeless powder Reply #10 - Feb 20^th, 2020 at 8:02pm	Print Post
	If anyone here is going to spend the money to buy all of the Sieves and the bottom pan be pre-warned it is allot of work. You can only put a bit more to just cover the top screen. Then you have to shake it like hell to separate it, stop and clean out the powder caught in the screens. And then start all over again so it is a chore and not just a real simple thing. When I sifted my 32 pounds of MP 300 it took me more than 16 hours to shift it all. And once I started I did absolutely nothing else until it was all done with the exception of sleeping for the night and then going back at it again.

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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ledball Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1021 Location: syracuse, ohio Joined: Nov 20^th, 2009	Re: Sifting smokeless powder Reply #11 - Feb 20^th, 2020 at 9:16pm	Print Post
	IMO life is to short to waste sifting smokeless powder because it’s dangerous and there is no improvement in accuracy and that’s all I have to say about that. Ledball


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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Sifting smokeless powder Reply #12 - Feb 20^th, 2020 at 10:01pm	Print Post
	I would have to differ I shot that 32 pounds of sifted MP300 and won allot of honors with never having any ill effects. When you read Charlie's response from Accurate Arms Powder when he was sifting AA 7. They had no choice but to say it was not recommended or safe for liability sake. But if you look at the group he shot in his article in the Journal using sifted he more than cut the unsifted in half.

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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Green_Frog Frequent Elocutionist Offline "It ain't easy being green" ASSRA Life #281 Posts: 4164 Location: Lynchburg, VA Joined: Apr 18^th, 2004	Re: Sifting smokeless powder Reply #13 - Feb 21^st, 2020 at 7:34am	Print Post
	Hey ledball, do you know who ended up with Dad’s sieves? I know Dale53 sifted a bunch of Carbine Ball powder (approx same as H108) and got some great results with it, then after he gave up Schuetzen, he sold most of what was left to a newer Chinquapin shooter who is still campaigning it effectively. I’d love to sieve some of my late H108 and see if it made as much difference for me as it did for Jim Borton. I sure miss those days of being able to experiment down the tunnel out of Charlie’s shop... that separated fact from speculation! Your Friendly Frog


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ledball Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1021 Location: syracuse, ohio Joined: Nov 20^th, 2009	Re: Sifting smokeless powder Reply #14 - Feb 21^st, 2020 at 10:27am	Print Post
	Frog, I don’t know who got Charlie’s sifting screens, I was never much interested in sifting powder. The powder company’s must be stupid, if we could cut our groups in half with sifted powder, why don’t the powder company’s sift it for us, I would give a hundred dollars a pound for that powder. Ledball.


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