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A "What???" moment (Read 3598 times)

oneatatime Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4484 Location: Rocky Mountains Joined: Oct 30^th, 2011	A "What???" moment Feb 3^rd, 2020 at 6:47pm	Print Post
	I may have received one of these moments today but in order to confirm it I have need of a 444 Marlin case. Does anyone happen to have a discardable one with a cracked neck or something they would be willing to send me for postage plus?


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burntwater Oldtimer Offline Posts: 602 Location: Michigan Joined: Feb 5^th, 2018	Re: A "What???" moment Reply #1 - Feb 3^rd, 2020 at 7:02pm	Print Post
	Coming your way with coordinates. Check your PM Rick


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oneatatime Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4484 Location: Rocky Mountains Joined: Oct 30^th, 2011	Re: A "What???" moment Reply #2 - Feb 3^rd, 2020 at 8:42pm	Print Post
	Thanks to Rick for a quick reply and offer. I'll give a hint for the "What???" moment. I was flipping through my newly arrived Handloader's Guide to Cartridge Conversions and happened to stop at the entry for the 44-40 Extra Long. More to follow when the brass arrives.


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beltfed Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1826 Location: Central Wi Joined: Dec 20^th, 2007	Re: A "What???" moment Reply #3 - Feb 3^rd, 2020 at 10:16pm	Print Post
	If the 44-40 "Extra Long" has the same base diameter as the44-40/44WCF: The 444 Marlin case has same base dia as the 44 Mag. These are Smaller at base than the 44-40 WCF. beltfed/arnie


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oneatatime Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4484 Location: Rocky Mountains Joined: Oct 30^th, 2011	Re: A "What???" moment Reply #4 - Feb 4^th, 2020 at 12:46am	Print Post
	The 444 Marlin has about the same base (maybe a couple of thousandths larger) as the 44-40 WCF. The 445 Super Mag has the same base as the 44 Mag.


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Online Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18080 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: A "What???" moment Reply #5 - Feb 4^th, 2020 at 10:28am	Print Post
	oneatatime wrote on Feb 4^th, 2020 at 12:46am: The 444 Marlin has about the same base (maybe a couple of thousandths larger) as the 44-40 WCF. The 445 Super Mag has the same base as the 44 Mag. Yes, it's a pretty close base diameter, and very close to the .38-40, .44-40, .25-35, .30-30, .32-40, .32 Spl., and .38-55. Marlin designed the .444 so the guns chambered in the other calibers could all use the same breech bolt, extractor, and ejector. They're all within maybe .0010" of each other.

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beltfed Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1826 Location: Central Wi Joined: Dec 20^th, 2007	Re: A "What???" moment Reply #6 - Feb 4^th, 2020 at 10:40am	Print Post
	I am surprised: I checked: 444Marlin Base: .471COW/.465 measured RP factory rd 44 WCF: Base: .471COW/0.462-.466 measured several old and new factory rds 44Mag Base: 0.457" / measured WW, RP brass: 0.454" I stand corrected, oneatatime is more correct beltfed/arnie


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beltfed Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1826 Location: Central Wi Joined: Dec 20^th, 2007	Re: A "What???" moment Reply #7 - Feb 4^th, 2020 at 11:04am	Print Post
	Yes, Rem designed the 444 for Marlin so that the RIM would fit into the usual 336 "3030" size bolt,etc. But, the base dia of 444 is significantly Larger than the "3030" family which is COW: base 0.422.rim 0.502-0.506 Actual base dia of 3030etc cases is even smaller at 0.413-0.415, including NIB WRA 32-40 brass I have. 3030 family rims actually 0.489(32-40WRA), 0.413-0.415 for 38-55s and 3030s on hand. beltfed/arnie


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oneatatime Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4484 Location: Rocky Mountains Joined: Oct 30^th, 2011	Re: A "What???" moment Reply #8 - Feb 8^th, 2020 at 12:44am	Print Post
	So my "What??" has been confirmed and the rest of the story is at the end of the "Frank Wesson Two-Trigger" thread in the Single Shot Rifles section and soon to be followed up in the Reloading section.


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Cbashooter Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1634 Location: Eastern Wa. Joined: Mar 31^st, 2018	Re: A "What???" moment Reply #9 - Feb 8^th, 2020 at 9:42am	Print Post
	I always heard the 444 body was based on the '06


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oneatatime Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4484 Location: Rocky Mountains Joined: Oct 30^th, 2011	Re: A "What???" moment Reply #10 - Feb 8^th, 2020 at 6:23pm	Print Post
	Well, the 444 is rimmed, smaller in the head, longer in the body, and has less taper. So, probably not based on the '06, or if so, very loosely.


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Ranch13 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 637 Location: East Central Wy. Joined: Jan 20^th, 2018	Re: A "What???" moment Reply #11 - Feb 9^th, 2020 at 10:39am	Print Post
	Reading some of the stuff from back in the back in the pre 444 marlin days, looks like those gun cranks were using 30-40 and 303 cases before Remington domesticated the 444 case.


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oneatatime Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4484 Location: Rocky Mountains Joined: Oct 30^th, 2011	Re: A "What???" moment Reply #12 - Feb 9^th, 2020 at 11:09am	Print Post
	Yes, if you're going to play with making a new large bore rimmed cartridge it would seem like a better idea to start with an existing rimmed cartridge with the approximate base diameter. Maybe they all go back to the 38-50 Remington;-)
	« Last Edit: Feb 9^th, 2020 at 11:18am by oneatatime »

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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Online Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18080 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: A "What???" moment Reply #13 - Feb 9^th, 2020 at 11:31am	Print Post
	The diameter of the base or shape of the case wasn't important to Marlin. Those are simply resolved with a reamer in the barrel. No different than .25-35 is to .38-55. But the rim diameter and being able to use one bolt for every cartridge used in their 336 family was a financially sound solution to Marlin. And one they insisted on when coming up with the .444 to use in their 336 action.

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