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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 222 rimmed - cartridge length dilemma (Read 7621 times)
JLouis
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Re: 222 rimmed - cartridge length dilemma
Reply #15 - Jan 16th, 2020 at 1:25pm
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1.690 is the correct trim to length I had it listed as 1.960 and went back corrected that error. It is real unfortunate for the OP to try and now deal with what he has ended up with. But there is also a good lesson to learn and that is to carefully measure and double check the actual reamers specs. prior to its use. It is a bit more work and that is to also make a sizing die with the same reamer you cut the chamber with. In this case it could have been used to reform the brass using a different parent case.
  

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1isenough
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Re: 222 rimmed - cartridge length dilemma
Reply #16 - Jan 16th, 2020 at 1:57pm
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Thank you all for your time and responses.  It seems pretty clear the correct cartridge length is 1.70".

JLewis has a good suggestion - cut a chamber using a 222 Remington reamer, and then cut the rim separately.  The challenge will be to get the headspace correct using that method - lots of small cuts and taking the barrel out to install in the receiver to check fit.

Still no reply from PTG on the cartridge length of their reamer.  Also, no reply from the reamer rental company on what they found out or what they will do to make it right.
  
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JLouis
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Re: 222 rimmed - cartridge length dilemma
Reply #17 - Jan 17th, 2020 at 4:40pm
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It shouldn't be overly difficult or time consuming for you to headspace. What amount of headspace would you be looking to accomplish. And would you be using a cartridge case as your headspace guage.
  

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1isenough
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Re: 222 rimmed - cartridge length dilemma
Reply #18 - Jan 17th, 2020 at 7:53pm
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JLouis,

Thanks JLouis.  Yes, I would use a cartridge to headspace.  I am a bit of a novice.  I have always hand-reamed the finish chamber cut to get a tight headspace.  I first check the short-chambered barrel for fit, to get an idea of how much material I am going to have to cut.  Then I put the barrel in a padded vice and give the reamer a few turns, then mount the barrel and check the progress.  For example, on a Martini Cadet I do this until the block rubs on the cartridge and barely will close.  A couple of more turns with the reamer and it closes without rubbing, and I am there.  I figured cutting the rim would require mounting the barrel in a lathe, centered and set to zero runout, and begin cutting.  The process of dis-mounting and re-calibrating the check the progress would seem make the rim-cutting process more time-consuming.  Is there a better way?
  
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JLouis
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Re: 222 rimmed - cartridge length dilemma
Reply #19 - Jan 18th, 2020 at 12:32pm
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Send me an email at the below address it's allot easier to send pictures.

johnnymlouis@gmail.com
  

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Barrabruce
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Re: 222 rimmed - cartridge length dilemma
Reply #20 - Jan 22nd, 2020 at 7:09am
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1isenough wrote on Jan 17th, 2020 at 7:53pm:
JLouis,

Thanks JLouis.  Yes, I would use a cartridge to headspace.  I am a bit of a novice.  I have always hand-reamed the finish chamber cut to get a tight headspace.  I first check the short-chambered barrel for fit, to get an idea of how much material I am going to have to cut.  Then I put the barrel in a padded vice and give the reamer a few turns, then mount the barrel and check the progress.  For example, on a Martini Cadet I do this until the block rubs on the cartridge and barely will close.  A couple of more turns with the reamer and it closes without rubbing, and I am there.  I figured cutting the rim would require mounting the barrel in a lathe, centered and set to zero runout, and begin cutting.  The process of dis-mounting and re-calibrating the check the progress would seem make the rim-cutting process more time-consuming.  Is there a better way?

From what I have read.
It is best to cut your threads and shoulder so it is one thou off the squared breach block.
Cig paper.
Chambered to fit that rim clearance as well.
All in one go.
You can just screw on the block can’t you without moving the blank?
It keeps tension off the pivots and block and undue stresses you don’t need on the cadet action.
Since you have no real leverage in seating or extracting a case.

Seating into the lands will help centre the case for fire forming.
The Case expands to what is what ,where it is of what you got.
From then on it’s just partial neck sizing and leaving things alone if you have too.
Unless you overly stretch the brass.

But then again I’ve only read about it.
And it sounded like good logic to me.
But I ain’t no gun plumber but I did cut a shit load of threads in a past life.
« Last Edit: Jan 22nd, 2020 at 7:22am by Barrabruce »  
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JLouis
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Re: 222 rimmed - cartridge length dilemma
Reply #21 - Jan 22nd, 2020 at 12:20pm
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Barrabruce are you referring to head-spacing when you mention one thousands from the face of the squared block. If so it depends on the rifles use, if for hunting any dust, dirt or other debris would keep the block from closing. So you would want more and around ten thousands of space. The way I chamber mine having zero space is strictly for competitive use and just a wee bit of primer fouling in the bottom of the primer pocket can keep the block from wanting to close. So it is being scraped after each shot and prior to seating a new primer into the case. I also use the same case for the entire match as well as for my practice outings. 
  

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Barrabruce
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Re: 222 rimmed - cartridge length dilemma
Reply #22 - Jan 22nd, 2020 at 3:32pm
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No and yes.
The clearance from the end of the barrel to the breachface being a thou.
The clearance on the few original cadets I have measured are from 5-8 thou.
The rim depth of cut has varied.

The end of the barrel face becomes the datum point for any extra free space you want to put into the system.
After you have established how much clearance you actually have in the barrel /breachface clearance.

At the end of the day your case will be well conformed to what ever chamber / free space you have provided for it minus contraction.

Tight chamber dimensions to a new case will provide less expansion and easier to get cases that are more uniformity consistent than a loosely goosey  one all being equal.

It don’t matter much after  you shoot a case a few times and don’t change it by squeezing it down in some form of die .

It will be fully perfectly formed in it’s expandable free space.

If the pressure of your load doesn’t compress all the compounded clearances and slop  in the system stretching your brass to much to make hard extraction of the case. 
Then we call that good don’t we???.

If you are rubbing your primers on chambering your pockets are too short for the primers you use.
Or you aren’t seating the anvil on the primer keeping them long.
One day you may experience lift off on closing.

If you are rubbing your primers on extraction you are either getting extrusion into the firing pin hole from excessive clearance there from mating surfaces.
The primers are too soft and or your load is too high.
It could be that you have just loose primer pockets.

I know nothing.








« Last Edit: Jan 22nd, 2020 at 3:49pm by Barrabruce »  
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