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plumb
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aneal ?
Oct 27th, 2019 at 7:13pm
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will be loading my 1st ever cartriges, 40 once rired, 60 new.i have heard that by anealing cases  that one can get longer life from thier brass is this a good or not so good idea. thanks
  
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JSB30
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Re: aneal ?
Reply #1 - Oct 27th, 2019 at 9:19pm
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What caliber,what rifle and what kind of powder. Bottleneck smokeless, no. Straight case black powder, maybe. What brand brass, Bertram probably. Most others ,no.  Just my opinion.
  
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rkba2nd
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Re: aneal ?
Reply #2 - Oct 27th, 2019 at 9:30pm
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My feeling is, it is a good thing if, and that is a big if, it is done correctly. I would suggest that you read about the process from many sources before you begin. ONE MUST BE AWARE, that if you over heat the base of the brass case, you will soften it to the point that it can fail, which is not a good thing!! This website and others such as 6mmbr, or benchrest central would be good places to turn to before proceeding. You will find there will be many opinions and methods, some good and some not so, and some potentially dangerous. There are numerous companies that manufacture annealing machines, from very expensive to reaonable, that help to control the duration of heat, and location of heat on the case, and different ways of protecting the base of the case. A safe, and helpful procedure if done correctly. Arm yourself with knowledge.
  

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Fogman
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Re: aneal ?
Reply #3 - Oct 27th, 2019 at 11:07pm
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I use the Anneal-Rite system because it is simple, inexpensive and with the Tempilaq 750 solution it is temperature accurate. I anneal my black powder cases to prevent powder blow back down the outside of the case and resulting inconsistent velocities... which means larger groups. Starline recommends annealing their brass; Norma says theirs don't need it. Annealing the top inch or so will soften the brass enough that it expands to fill the chamber when fired and prevents the blow back problems. I don't know if it extends the life or not. The Tempilaq solution that Anneal-Rite sells with their outfit is used to help you determine when the top part of the brass you are heating reaches 750 degrees. To little and it isn't annealed enough - too much and you can run into some of the problems others have already mentioned and actually ruin your brass. The tempilaq takes the guess work out and shows you when each case is at the right temperature and therefore the annealing will be correct and consistent. If your fired cases show a lot of discoloration on the out side then you should consider annealing. Reload them, then check the annealed fired cases and see if there is a difference from the non-annealed fired cases you had. Check your target too. My groups got better at the longer ranges. I included a link to the annealing video and a link to Buffalo Arms who is one place you can get the Anneal-rite outfit. Or you can buy the Tempilaq 750 solution on Amazon yourself and use it with whatever annealing machine you choose. 

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plumb
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Re: aneal ?
Reply #4 - Oct 28th, 2019 at 10:26am
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2520 ss 1885 low wall yes they are bertram . smokeless 4198 thanks again
  
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John Boy
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Re: aneal ?
Reply #5 - Oct 28th, 2019 at 3:07pm
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Quote:
i have heard that by anealing cases  that one can get longer life from thier brass is this a good or not so good idea.

For rifle caliber cases it is a good idea to anneal them to reduce the metal 'work harding' after multiple firing and allows the cases to better adhere to the wall of the chamber
Procedure:
* 1st fire form the cases
* Then anneal them to a greenish/blue color that is approximately 650 degrees starting at the mouth down to the depth that would be the length of the seated bullet
* Drop them on a cotton towel and let the cases air cool
Done
PS: Some folks heat the case until a LIGHT red color appears - I don't
  
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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: aneal ?
Reply #6 - Oct 28th, 2019 at 3:58pm
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Bertram’s metallurgy has gotten better over the years, but I would still give those .25-20 SS cases a mild anneal.

I anneal any cases that fit any of the following criteria:

1) Old

2) Expensive

3) Uncommon/obsolete

4) Paper-patch blackpowder cartridge (these after every firing)

5) During or after case reforming, as indicated

I stand them in a pan of water that covers the case base and spin the pan as I play a torch on them, in good light.  When the bluish color goes down the case to where I want it, I tip the case over in the water.

The unkindest aspect of the old Bertram cases was that they would split down the case body, not at the neck or shoulder.  So for all Bertram cases, I stand them in maybe 3/8”-1/2” of water and watch the colors go as far down as possible until the water surface adjacent to the case starts bubbling and sizzling.

Don’t go for a red glow in the dark.  That is what they used to call a “dead anneal,” as soft as brass can get.  For pounding brass sheets into forms for decorator items, this condition allows for the maximum shaping before the brass work-hardens and needs another trip to the furnace, but in a cartridge case, it can cause shoulders to collapse and necks to squish in reloading operations.  The blue color is soft enough not to crack, but retains a modicum of strength.
  
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svartkruttgris#369
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Re: aneal ?
Reply #7 - Oct 28th, 2019 at 4:29pm
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This is from another that never anneals and has been reloading for well over 60 years. 

HOWEVER! there are some brass that really should be annealed, or avoided: Bertram is one, some reformed brass from Buffalo Arms is another. My experience does not include 25-20 SS, so, may not apply. 

SKG
  
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Reverend Al
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Re: aneal ?
Reply #8 - Oct 28th, 2019 at 6:38pm
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I bought an Annealeez automatic annealing unit about 2 years ago and I've been annealing all of my brass.  I don't get split cases now in any calibre ... your results may vary ...

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I may have passed my "Best Before" date, but I haven't quite reached my "Expiry" date yet ...
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craigster
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Re: aneal ?
Reply #9 - Oct 28th, 2019 at 11:20pm
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JSB30 wrote on Oct 27th, 2019 at 9:19pm:
What caliber,what rifle and what kind of powder. Bottleneck smokeless, no. Straight case black powder, maybe. What brand brass, Bertram probably. Most others ,no.  Just my opinion.


Caliber, rifle, powder have nothing to do with it. Neither does bottleneck smokeless or straight case black.
  
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oldman46
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Re: aneal ?
Reply #10 - Oct 29th, 2019 at 1:19am
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Many years back I bought about 350 Israeli 8mm Mauser once fired boxer primed cases. Annealed all 350 and planned to make 7.65x53mm cases as the only deal in town was either military surplus or Norma (expensive then and now. Borrowed a variable speed drill from the job. Cut down a 3/8" extension rod so it would fit in the drill and a 1/2" socket. slow speed and had the lights out in the garage so i could monitor the colors. and into a 5 gallon bucket of water. Sized,trimmed annealed again  then final trim to length. Have about 175 left. Another anneal and will use them for 8mm Mauser cast bullet loads. I've a beautiful Persian 98/29 I've been wanting to shoot. Brass dates 1955-56. Frank
  
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Reverend Al
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Re: aneal ?
Reply #11 - Oct 29th, 2019 at 1:34pm
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Schuetzendave wrote on Oct 28th, 2019 at 7:19pm:
My $10 investment for an old bread maker does the same job.

That way I can buy more Swiss BP.

But it is a bit more of a manual process.


Since I had thousands and thousands of rounds of brass in about 60 different calibres I felt that investing a few dollars in an annealing unit that would churn it's way through them all reasonably quickly and with a minimum of effort on my part was an investment worth making!  Each to their own ...

Wink
  

I may have passed my "Best Before" date, but I haven't quite reached my "Expiry" date yet ...
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RemFan
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Re: aneal ?
Reply #12 - Nov 8th, 2019 at 9:44am
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Reverend Al:  what brand of bread maker do you recommend?  I may need to go shopping at the Goodwill store.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: aneal ?
Reply #13 - Nov 8th, 2019 at 11:07am
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RemFan wrote on Nov 8th, 2019 at 9:44am:
Reverend Al:  what brand of bread maker do you recommend?  I may need to go shopping at the Goodwill store.


That was Schuetzendave that used the breadmaker.

I agree that if it's Bertram I'd anneal it always! I personally wont buy Bertram unless I have no other choice. I think their product is too brittle, and too much loss to waste my money on.
I don't anneal a lot of my brass ever. Then there's some that takes so much forming to get to where I use it that I know it's going to be work hardened when I'm done, so it gets annealed once it's fully formed.
  

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Re: aneal ?
Reply #14 - Nov 11th, 2019 at 6:44pm
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Schuetzendave wrote on Oct 28th, 2019 at 7:19pm:
My $10 investment for an old bread maker does the same job.

That way I can buy more Swiss BP.

But it is a bit more of a manual process.


pictures?
  

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