Mr. Roller

That's a very early Roller too! Neat picture!

I've seen this picture and this man is named" touch the clouds". He was at the Custer battle and this rolling block might have belonged to Custer. Never authenticated as he didn't live to long after this picture and got rid of the rifle.

The history says he wasn't at the battle but at the Cheyenne River Agency with his band. Says he was 6'9" and weighed 280 pounds. He didn't much need the guns when he was photographed in 1877. Later was a scout and went to Washington. Stayed the night with Crazy Horse at Ft. Robinson as Crazy Horse was dying from being bayoneted by an Indian policeman.

With the drop in that Rolling Block's receiver, it appears it might be an early split breech, which would pre date it to being Custer's gun if it is. 

powderman wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2019 at 10:04pm:


Sporting rifles were later in production, but that doesn't mean a split breech wasn't reworked as many military guns were. The forearm doesn't look like a sporter, as it appears much too thick and heavy. Maybe a cut down military forearm?
Or maybe this isn't even a Remington? Maybe it's a Whitney? 
Something really odd looking about that breech block too!

I agree with Vall that the breech block area looks strange; but, as powderman notes, that may just reflect the poor quality of the image.

Bill Lawrence

Hi marlinguy, try this image, it's higher resolution. I think that is a box stock Remington #1. There is something on his belt behind the rifle that is making it look wrong in the image on the thread but on this other image the hammer, receiver, Breechblock/thumbspur and forend all look right to me.

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I've looked at and enlarged the better image found by kootne and there does seem to be something on Touch the Cloud's belt or more likely his right braid that together with the rifle being angled is the source of the action's "strangeness".  In any case, it's certainly a rolling block.

Bill Lawrence

Here is another of GAC with his rolling block rifle and a nice bull elk. I know for years there has been speculation about those rifles being the same rifle but I personally think the barrel is shorter in the Custer/elk photo than the one Touch the Cloud is holding. Remember George was about 9" shorter than the Indian. But both rifles do appear to round tops with heavy barrels.

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Well, I dug out a heavy barrel sporter (30.375" barrel) for comparison measurements. The GAC/elk picture doesn't give a good view of the end of the forearm so I compared length of receiver to barrel length. I am putting it at ~28.44"
On the Touches the Cloud rifle I measured the forearm and barrel and using the forearm length of my rifle (10.875) I am putting his barrel at ~30.5"
I blew the pictures up and used a Mitutoyo dial caliper to measure the pictures and a tape measure to get the rifle measurements.
I don't think they are the same rifle. 
ymmv
I do think somewhere I heard the serial number of GAC's sporter was 3535 but that seems late for what looks like a roundtop. I only remember that because I have one #3735

Dennis
p.s. to the OP, I love the comment added to the picture!