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How to use a Vickerman Seating Die? (Read 2715 times)

Smoke Oldtimer Offline Posts: 851 Location: San Diego Joined: Feb 24^th, 2013	How to use a Vickerman Seating Die? Jun 26^th, 2019 at 10:30pm	Print Post
	A friend convinced me that the Vickerman seating die was the best way to go, so I bought one. The first time I tried the die, following the instructions on the Vickerman site, it wrinkled the mouth of the case. I put it away. I'd like to give it another try and was wondering if people had suggestions on how to use the die effectively (and without destroying the case). Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

	I refuse to spend my life worrying about what I eat. There is no pleasure worth foregoing just for an extra 3 years in the geriatric ward. John Mortimer
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oldman46 Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 424 Joined: Sep 21^st, 2016	Re: How to use a Vickerman Seating Die? Reply #1 - Jun 27^th, 2019 at 12:03am	Print Post
	You may have to purchase a Lyman M die to slightly bell the case mouth of the case so the bullet can enter the case mouth without the case wrinkiling problem you describe. Might be a trial and error thing as you can adjust the die to get different amounts of belling. Frank


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GT Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2368 Location: Northeast Wyoming Joined: Jun 28^th, 2015	Re: How to use a Vickerman Seating Die? Reply #2 - Jun 27^th, 2019 at 12:37am	Print Post
	Frank, That has been my experience with the Vickerman, Meachum and my design too - I made my versions case specific and didn't take into account for any bell, wrinkled a few cases by the time it would accommodate a case properly. Sometimes making things with extra close tolerances looks and sounds good... Smoke, Experiment a little bit, when you get it right it does make the seating of a bullet - square to the case anyway. What case and bullet are you using it on? I rarely use them for vintage cases and cast bullets, I like them for jacketed bullets. Greg

	"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk" T. A. Edison "The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7659 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: How to use a Vickerman Seating Die? Reply #3 - Jun 27^th, 2019 at 1:41am	Print Post
	It's been my experience with Vickerman and other like designs, that the bushings are to large. I make my bushing to fit the case at a diameter to match my the inside diameter (plus .001-.002 clearance) that I want for the bullet. for cast I use the same ID as the bullet OD. I then give the case a almost full, 82 deg chamfer. Do not be afraid to chamfer the case, it doesn't hurt the case or accuracy and helps seating. The necks are wrinkled because the bullet, catches the edge of the case neck. Frank

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gnoahhh Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1063 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Joined: Mar 31^st, 2010	Re: How to use a Vickerman Seating Die? Reply #4 - Jun 27^th, 2019 at 11:32am	Print Post
	My experiences mirror Frank's. The Vickerman relies on the close support of the case neck to center things up. A belled case won't fit in there. Put a decent chamfer on the case mouth instead. They're typically made for loading standard diameter jacketed bullets into standard dimensioned case necks. Loading of oversize cast bullets into properly oversizedd case necks is problematic and requires altering/customizing the die for the specific purpose.


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Dellet Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1303 Joined: May 19^th, 2017	Re: How to use a Vickerman Seating Die? Reply #5 - Jun 27^th, 2019 at 1:05pm	Print Post
	If you specify when ordering that you will be using cast bullets, they will set the die up accordingly. Not only to compensate for neck diameter, but also the bullet diameter you provide.


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7659 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: How to use a Vickerman Seating Die? Reply #6 - Jun 27^th, 2019 at 2:25pm	Print Post
	Let me add that if that it's very important that the case neck has a little clearance, as I said .001 - .002, if not, it will push the bushing up and you won't be able to do anything. You'll also have the same problem if you get to much lube between the bushing and the neck so, keep everything as clean as possible. Frank

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Smoke Oldtimer Offline Posts: 851 Location: San Diego Joined: Feb 24^th, 2013	Re: How to use a Vickerman Seating Die? Reply #7 - Jun 27^th, 2019 at 10:44pm	Print Post
	Would there be any benefit to running a prepared case up into the die without a bullet just to see if it fits? I'll be loading brand new Starline .45-90. Should I anneal the case mouths first?

	I refuse to spend my life worrying about what I eat. There is no pleasure worth foregoing just for an extra 3 years in the geriatric ward. John Mortimer
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Smoke Oldtimer Offline Posts: 851 Location: San Diego Joined: Feb 24^th, 2013	Re: How to use a Vickerman Seating Die? Reply #8 - Jun 27^th, 2019 at 10:46pm	Print Post
	frnkeore wrote on Jun 27^th, 2019 at 1:41am: I then give the case a almost full, 82 deg chamfer. Do not be afraid to chamfer the case, it doesn't hurt the case or accuracy and helps seating. Where might I get an 82 degree chamfering cutter for .45 caliber cases?

	I refuse to spend my life worrying about what I eat. There is no pleasure worth foregoing just for an extra 3 years in the geriatric ward. John Mortimer
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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7659 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: How to use a Vickerman Seating Die? Reply #9 - Jun 27^th, 2019 at 11:44pm	Print Post
	Regarding annealing, I would be careful if, your using a fit of more than .002. New brass shouldn't be to hard and many manufacturers do anneal their new brass so, I'd try loading w/o annealing and go from there. 82 deg is what a standard counter sink has. You can find them at most any hardware store, it's used for flat head screws and bolts. 60 deg is what many reloading counter sinks are. You can also find 90 deg and 120 deg for aircraft rivets. I don't like the 60 deg c'sinks because they take to much out of the neck on short necked cases. 90 deg is ok too. Frank

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J.G.Terry Participating Member Offline Posts: 28 Location: Chattanooga Joined: Jul 29^th, 2014	Re: How to use a Vickerman Seating Die? Reply #10 - Jul 2^nd, 2019 at 10:52pm	Print Post
	I ran up on two NOS Vickerman bullet seaters. The 308 Cases were belled using a Lee universal expander with NOE expander. These expanders are sold steps. For example, I got, 310,311 and 312. To me this beats the M die by some distance. I use the Lee FCD lightly to remove and part of the bell remaining.


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