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ODD Duck - Model 45 . . . looking for clues! (Read 6940 times)

scharfe Oldtimer Offline A good plan today beats a perfect plan tomorrow. Posts: 542 Location: ny / pa line Joined: Dec 18^th, 2006	Re: ODD Duck - Model 45 . . . looking for clues! Reply #15 - Mar 30^th, 2019 at 10:34am	Print Post
	I had a 44 that was identical. It did indeed adjust the trigger pull and that pull was sweet !!! It had a Niedner / Malden Mass bbl in 25/21. I always assumed it was his work.


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ACGould Full Member Offline Posts: 138 Location: Central San Joaquin Valley Joined: Sep 3^rd, 2004	Re: ODD Duck - Model 45 . . . looking for clues! Reply #16 - Mar 30^th, 2019 at 2:14pm	Print Post
	I'm sure they were a factory option. I have owned two and have seen at least one other. Like Stevens rather problematic single set trigger, they were apparently not very popular. The screw had a cone shaped end which limited the sear engagement as it was turned in. Leon


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Redsetter Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3468 Location: New York Joined: Aug 6^th, 2013	Re: ODD Duck - Model 45 . . . looking for clues! Reply #17 - Mar 30^th, 2019 at 3:30pm	Print Post
	ACGould wrote on Mar 30^th, 2019 at 2:14pm: I'm sure they were a factory option. I have owned two and have seen at least one other. Like Stevens rather problematic single set trigger, they were apparently not very popular. Leon Must be that "hammer with set screw," $1 extra, that I just found listed in the Ideal parts list of the '96 catalog; though with no further description, I wouldn't have understood what that option meant.


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Bill Lawrence Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1037 Joined: Mar 17^th, 2014	Re: ODD Duck - Model 45 . . . looking for clues! Reply #18 - Mar 30^th, 2019 at 3:37pm	Print Post
	Good for you Red; I didn't look back far enough. Bill Lawrence


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Rocketnutz Newbie Offline Posts: 8 Location: VA Joined: Mar 28^th, 2019	Re: ODD Duck - Model 45 . . . looking for clues! Reply #19 - Mar 30^th, 2019 at 3:47pm	Print Post
	With all that - that still puts her somewhere between 1889 & 1896 (ish). The 11XXX serial, while not "low" is not very high either. I do like to think that if the unit was put together after 1894 - it would have carried the later patent roll stamp. Coupled with the fact that the numbers match on barrel, tang and butt plate. Little of a "odd duck" - hehehehe

	Fix the GLASS!!
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BP Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 8039 Location: Westside Joined: Aug 27^th, 2006	Re: ODD Duck - Model 45 . . . looking for clues! Reply #20 - Mar 30^th, 2019 at 4:17pm	Print Post
	Rocketnutz wrote on Mar 29^th, 2019 at 3:45pm: Thanks for the input. So far what I find a little "odd", is the lighter weight #1 barrel on 28", combined with the sights. Lyman #5 Beach (with ivory bead), and a "pre" No. 104 tang sight. It has the thumb stem screw, but not the base swing knob. There is also no wind-age adjustment. Your tang sight is the Stevens No. 100 Mid-Range Vernier Peep. Regarding the sights that Stevens offered circa 1900, Stevens stated "We will fit any sights to our rifles, but for convenience we have grouped the sights as they are generally matched, vis.:" If your rifle was ordered with the "G Sights" group, the No. 100 Mid-Range Vernier Peep would have been matched with the Stevens Wind-Gauge Front sight. The "E-Sights" group consisted of the Lyman #5 Combination Front sight matched with the Lyman Tang Sight. And a bunch of sights swapping has occurred during the past 12 decades of time. If you happen to find a Stevens catalog circa 1900, and look in the component parts price list for the "Ideal" rifle, you'll see some options listed for the hammer: No. 6. Hammer... $0.70 No. 6A. Hammer with Set Screw... $1.00 No. 6B. Hammer with Stirrup and Fly... $1.25 It looks like the "No. 6A Hammer with Set Screw" was installed in your particular rifle.

	There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Proud Noodlehead
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Redsetter Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3468 Location: New York Joined: Aug 6^th, 2013	Re: ODD Duck - Model 45 . . . looking for clues! Reply #21 - Mar 30^th, 2019 at 4:44pm	Print Post
	Rocketnutz wrote on Mar 30^th, 2019 at 3:47pm: I do like to think that if the unit was put together after 1894 - it would have carried the later patent roll stamp. Ideal models made prior to sometime in '96 weren't known as "44s"--they all had 3-digit model numbers beginning with 1, such as 110. The Model 45 you have did not exist by that number until 1896 at the earliest. Use of "old" parts on "new" models is common in gun-making when parts are made up in large batches, to be used later as needed, sometimes years later.


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Redsetter Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3468 Location: New York Joined: Aug 6^th, 2013	Re: ODD Duck - Model 45 . . . looking for clues! Reply #22 - Mar 30^th, 2019 at 4:52pm	Print Post
	BP wrote on Mar 30^th, 2019 at 4:17pm: If you happen to find a Stevens catalog circa 1900, and look in the component parts price list for the "Ideal" rifle, you'll see some options listed for the hammer: The 1900 catalog also lists special hammer & block screws for Schuetzen models. Perhaps because Schuetzen receivers were thicker than standard models, requiring longer screws?


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BP Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 8039 Location: Westside Joined: Aug 27^th, 2006	Re: ODD Duck - Model 45 . . . looking for clues! Reply #23 - Mar 30^th, 2019 at 5:04pm	Print Post
	Rocketnutz wrote on Mar 29^th, 2019 at 12:54pm: ... The Barrel has "11XXX" and "1" on it, and does not look to be a pope barrel, but a lighter weight "No 1" version. 28" long. (not the standard 26") Half octagon. (so longer and lighter then normal). Chambered in 22 LR (not the more common 25 Stevens). ... One other note... just looked at the Telegraphic Code section that Stevens used for ordering rifles... For the Ideal Rifle No. 44 chambered in .22 Long rifle, R.F. with the 24-in. barrel, the code was... Van with the 26-in. barrel, the code was... Vein with the 28-in. barrel, the code was… Vine with the 30-in, barrel, the code was... Vote Other caliber chamberings and their various barrel lengths had different respective telegraph codes associated to them.

	There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Proud Noodlehead
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Bill Lawrence Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1037 Joined: Mar 17^th, 2014	Re: ODD Duck - Model 45 . . . looking for clues! Reply #24 - Mar 30^th, 2019 at 6:29pm	Print Post
	Yes, BP, but the standard barrel supplied was a # 2, not a # 1; therefore, it's still at least an odd duckling. Also, on the assumption that a "hammer with stirrup and fly" would have been automatically supplied with set triggers, why would you order such a hammer by itself? Bill Lawrence


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BP Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 8039 Location: Westside Joined: Aug 27^th, 2006	Re: ODD Duck - Model 45 . . . looking for clues! Reply #25 - Mar 30^th, 2019 at 9:16pm	Print Post
	Bill, The standard frame is pictured... not the 44 frame that was milled out to accept a double-set trigger lower tang assembly which should have been accompanied by the 6B Hammer with Stirrup and Fly. Don't see mention that a single-set trigger assembly was installed. For me personally, the 6A hammer may provide a usable adjustment range... able to provide a light sear engagement for use on the target range (a hammer with fly might be useful here, but not necessary if you apply proper trigger follow-through), and also able to provide a heavier sear engagement when out hunting in the game fields. PS: I do have a couple Stevens that are not equipped with set triggers, but which do have a Hammer with Stirrup and Fly installed, and that doesn't bother me in the slightest... they are Stevens rifles, after all.

	There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Proud Noodlehead
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uscra112 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4079 Location: Switzerland of Ohio Joined: May 7^th, 2007	Re: ODD Duck - Model 45 . . . looking for clues! Reply #26 - Mar 31^st, 2019 at 12:06am	Print Post
	Could you post a pic of those "hammer with stirrup and fly"? The DST setup used my DST Model 44 is almost identical to the 44 1/2, which has a radically different mainspring for starters. Hadn't thought to see whether that hammer would otherwise fit a Model 44, but I'd think that the spring alone would preclude it. ***************** Filling in a blank - on page 32 of More Single Shot Rifles, Grant describes on a Model 107, s/n 2291, the screw through from the top of the hammer as a "trigger adjusting screw".
	« Last Edit: Mar 31^st, 2019 at 2:19am by uscra112 »
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Falo308 Newbie Offline Posts: 9 Joined: Oct 15^th, 2017	Re: ODD Duck - Model 45 . . . looking for clues! Reply #27 - Apr 2^nd, 2019 at 9:24pm	Print Post
	I have an identical model 45 in the 5xxx range in 22short with a 28" barrel and a little different tang sight....mine doesnt have a screw in the hammer...


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