New to this forum and from Britain to boot.

Have just purchased a brand new Pedersoli Sharps 45/70  34" Octagonal Barrel. proofed for smokeless.

I use Unique in my ML Handguns (legal in UK) and my .357 Winchester U/L. I can find plenty of info on BP loads for this rifle but little for smokeless. Reading through dozens of forums there seem to be many varying opinions on Powder to Bullet weight, filler or no filler. Position sensitive, or not, and so on.

I am using Starlight brass, 2.100" long and want to load both Postell bullets at 530 gns and RN FP at 412 gns Hard cast lead with grease grooves. Just about all there is available over here.

The rifle will chamber a round loaded with the 1.440" long 530 gn Postell Head to a LOA of 3.100", meaning the round has no 'jump' to engage the rifling which I gather is a good thing. However this means a lot of space in the case and loading Smokeless powder, which is position sensitive, (some say), will affect the accuracy.

There is a saying, ask 5 different people the same question, you get 5 different answers. Trawling through the many forums on the net seems to support this view.

The 12 Lb rifle is accurate I am sure and I am not a bad shot with a Vernier back sight and ring foresight, so I realize much of the results on the range will be down to the home loaded ammo.


Can any of the undoubted experts in the US offer any guidance to a beginner in these matters. 

Many thanks

John D

There is lots of reliable and safe load data for smokeless powder in 45-70, and a large selection of powders that can be used. My old standby is 4759 but that is no longer available. Accurate Arms 5744 is currently available in the US and also an excellent choice. If you can let us know what powders you have access to I am sure we can help you out.
Welcome aboard!
Joe S

I think someone will come along and say just try 12 grains of Unique with no filler or 1/16th of a sheet of single ply toilet paper pushed down to just off the powder. I once had a sheet of TP that was marked Property of HM the Queen. That might work better over there;-)

I have the same rifle and use 25 gr 5744 with a 405 fp cast bullet.

Gentlemen one and all, Thank you for your responses. 

You are fortunate to live in a country that is 'gun friendly', here in the UK, Gun ownership and shooting is discouraged or at least made difficult. (unless you are a criminal of course).

As an example, although being ex military and having held a firearms certificate for nearly 60 years, I have a round trip of over 200 miles to be able to shoot anything,( other than my .22 Rifles), on an approved range. Usually Military or in my case Bisley. 

Then there is a limited choice of components for re loading ( unless importing from the U.S. in itself problematic ).

So.

Thank you 'Boats' for your comments on position sensitivity I will bear that in mind

'Oneatatime'.
I wonder if a wisp of Cotton Wool would deputise for Her  Majesties' toilet paper since I am no longer in her employ.

Shuetzenmiester/Premod70
I will experiment with seating the Postell Head further back in the case, just that I read somewhere that a 'jump 'across the throat could be detrimental.

Bullshot/art. It seems the norm on American forums to refer to powder by a four figure group. Looking on the internet there seem a variety of meanings for these groups depending on the manufacturer, none of which I can relate to powders available here.


To answer Joe_S.

I currently use Alliant 'Unique' in my Nitro Converted M.L. Revolvers. (Ruger Old Army and Uberti Rem. 44 New Model Army), and also my Winchester Model 94  .357 U/L Rifle,
which is easy to come by over here.
I shoot Vitavuori 'Premium'  N 140 in my .303 No 1 Long Lee Enfield and my SMLE. again freely available.

I intend shooting Swiss 2Fg, which I use in my M.L.Parker Hale .451 2 band Volunteer. in the  Sharps 45/70 and information on this is plentifull, however on the occassions that my range time slot is short I want to be able to dispense with the cleaning after every shot that seems to be the prerequisite for accurrate B.P.shooting.

To sumarise, thank you all for your input, if anyone has a view on a suitable load of Alliant 'Unique' or indeed Vitavuori N140, for both a 410gn RN-FP and a 530 gn Postell, I would be greatly obliged since the four figure groups you almost always refer to, I can not relate to any powders I have available here.
Thanks again
Regards

John D.


 

In my opinion, you already have one of the best powders for the 45/70, Unique!

My best accuracy (Douglas barreled Borchardt), with a 430 gr bullet was 10.0 and 10.5 gr. It is easy shooting and produced a best 5 shot group (100 yd) of ~.80, I'd have to go to my records to get the exact size group.

A very good friend of mine, worked with his Trapdoor and got the Lee, 450 gr, bore riding bullet, to shoot best with, the above cited, 12.0 gr load.

One of my concerns, with your load, is the hard cast bullets. Are you allowed to cast your own bullets, in the UK? If you can, I would diffidently suggest you do that, using 30/1 for the light loads that I suggest.

Frank

One of my trusted sources told me I could not go wrong with 24 grains of 2400 for the Trapdoor.  I used it until I saw an article in the American Rifleman saying 24 grains of 2400  was a good way to blow up a Trapdoor    

Just wanted to say:
Re. This Obturation thing.
over the years I have used my "standard" bullet alloy
of 9 +1 WW/Lino on Handgun, smokeless rifle , BPCR
and even Schuetzen bullets.
this alloy is estimated at about:  94.5 lead/4.5% antimony
and 1% tin.  Has been tested at about 14.5 BHN.
It has been said that such an alloy is not likely to bump up well.
KEY HERE is to make the bullets at or 1-2 thousandths
larger than groove/freebore diameter so as to avoid
blowby gas cutting. In other words, the bullets don't need to bump up. They are already "there"
Works for me.
Oh, this has been working for last couple years even for
my Paper Patched bullets:  Dual diameter, with the
base band patched up to freebore/groove dia.
beltfed/arnie