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boats
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Re: Why would I pay...........................
Reply #15 - Dec 29th, 2018 at 7:03am
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There are good reasons for turned cases obsolete caliber special arrangement like reduced capacity   However they don’t perform like drawn brass.  Lack of “spring back” means they don’t seal as well and are very difficult to size 

I have 20 RMC 32/40 cases and rarely use them.  Intended for Breech Seating found they expand a small amount each firing growing from hard to impossable  to chamber after 30-40 firings.  Then very difficult to resize

It could be the composition of the brass used in my early RMCs however be warned turned is not always better than drawn and paying high prices does not always mean better

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Re: Why would I pay...........................
Reply #16 - Dec 29th, 2018 at 11:37am
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I have 60 pcs of RMC I bought this summer and I am very happy with them. I need to order 100 more and they will be expensive, but they work well and have the correct head stamp on them for my 40-70 Ballard.
  
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Re: Why would I pay...........................
Reply #17 - Dec 29th, 2018 at 1:42pm
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I've actually got a set of RMC .45-70 cases with a special headstamp to commemorate the Wyoming State midrange BPTR matches.   But they're not for shooting, there for looking at Smiley.   ( sort paraphrasing Chief Dan George in Josey Wales ). 

The owners of RMC are great people, and run the annual Wyoming State BPTR match which is where I first got into that particular habit.

Chris.
  
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JLouis
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Re: Why would I pay...........................
Reply #18 - Dec 29th, 2018 at 2:20pm
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I tried some 32-40 RMC cases several years back a friend gave me six. Three with small rifle primer pockets and three with large. I lost all but one on the first firing and kept it for a seater case. I later found out that when ordering one should also send in a chamber casting along with the order to keep this from taking place. A bit off topic but probably something to think about if deciding to order some turned cases for yourself.

JLouis
  

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uscra112
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Re: Why would I pay...........................
Reply #19 - Dec 29th, 2018 at 2:36pm
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My only foray into RMC brass was .25-20 Stevens.  I did find them to be brittle, but had so few that I didn't try annealing.  

Yes, turned brass is not the same formulation as drawn brass. The mills make "cartridge brass" formulation only in sheets, to accommodate the blanking process.  Turned brass has to start with bar stock. 
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Turned brass has a surface finish problem which is a bit arcane but relevant. The machining process leaves a very thin layer that is full of microfractures, ripe for crack formation. Ideally this would be removed using a fine abrasive, or better yet mitigated by superfinishing, which is a burnishing process, or by shot-peening.  Neither of the latter would be cost-efficient, and in either case a subsequent annealing would be necessary.  
« Last Edit: Dec 29th, 2018 at 2:54pm by uscra112 »  

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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Why would I pay...........................
Reply #20 - Dec 29th, 2018 at 2:55pm
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uscra112 wrote on Dec 29th, 2018 at 2:36pm:

Turned brass has a surface finish problem which is a bit arcane but relevant. The machining process leaves a very thin layer that is full of microfractures, ripe for crack formation. Ideally this would be removed using a fine abrasive, or better yet mitigated by superfinishing, which is a burnishing process.  Possibly also by shot-peening.   Neither of the latter would be cost-efficient.


What about the inside of the case?  Seems like that would be more difficult to polish.
  

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Re: Why would I pay...........................
Reply #21 - Dec 29th, 2018 at 2:57pm
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Schuetzenmiester wrote on Dec 29th, 2018 at 2:55pm:
uscra112 wrote on Dec 29th, 2018 at 2:36pm:

Turned brass has a surface finish problem which is a bit arcane but relevant. The machining process leaves a very thin layer that is full of microfractures, ripe for crack formation. Ideally this would be removed using a fine abrasive, or better yet mitigated by superfinishing, which is a burnishing process.  Possibly also by shot-peening.   Neither of the latter would be cost-efficient.


What about the inside of the case?  Seems like that would be more difficult to polish.


Exactly.  If I were making some sort of aerospace component that could be sold for $10,000 a piece, I'd find a way, but.......
  

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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Why would I pay...........................
Reply #22 - Dec 29th, 2018 at 3:18pm
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Why don't the brass turners set up to draw a basic brass that can be formed into a few specific obsolete cartridges and trim the rims and base thickness as necessary?   

  

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Re: Why would I pay...........................
Reply #23 - Dec 29th, 2018 at 3:38pm
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I'm veering a little here but I bought a Ballard a few years ago and the seller told me it was a 25-20.  After I got it and did a chamber cast discovered it was a 25-21SS the brass was non-existent so I made (turned) 20 or so- the rifle shot exceptional with these - what I discovered after about 10 loadings head separations became common - not at the head case joint as normal but further up the case... I'd made a reamer for the internals before swaging the od taper and it left a hint of a ridge where I transitioned from straight to a radius in the bottom of the case.  Every case has a separation forming at this point.
.. so the inside finish matters - Shiny outsides are just a part of it Wink
  

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Re: Why would I pay...........................
Reply #24 - Dec 29th, 2018 at 3:54pm
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I've made a lot of turned brass since I bought my 30/40 HW, in 1985. All have been to reduce case capacity. I've also made them for 308, 32/40 and 45/70. The materials that I used are, brass bar stock, 304 SS, bronze and aluminum bronze.

My stainless steel case, lasted about 13 years and probably, well over 1000 rounds, all breech seated and was not polished, inside or out. It's end came after the neck lost it's seal and collapsed. I was able to expand it back out but, after about 50 more rounds, it collapsed and split. It's not the best material but, it worked. It was just 1.8cc capacity. The next one was a bronze case, that I made to 2.8cc for fixed loads, it was polished, as I had to do the final fit, inside the neck and out. I made it that same year of '85 and used it until I "rung" the chamber in about 1990. It never failed and I still have it.

I made a 32/40 out of brass, for shooting fixed, I did not polish it. It lasted one shot, as the finish left by the chucking rear, was rough enough for the bullet to just grab it and pull the neck off.

The 308, I made for a friends Bolt gun, with a small rifle primer and with a polished inside neck. It lasted a few months and then he double charged it, with faster powder and opened the primer pocket to at least 1/4 inch.

My last case was made from aluminum bronze (an extremely tough material!), for my rechambered, to 30/40 Imp. I only have a few hundred rounds through it but, it works like a dream. It's also a reduce capacity case with a reamed .3115 (dowel pin reamer) hole back to within .3 of the case rim and a SR primer pocket. That case has shot some fantastic groups, including a 10 shot 1.288 group @ 200 yds.

Things I learned:

Polishing the outside of the neck, isn't need for low pressure loads but, I would recommend it. IF your brass fits the chamber neck. By that I mean that it should be the same size as the chamber neck or, even a push fit. It will spring back to the right size, if a push fit.

The inside of the neck should always be polished, especially if you want to ever shoot fixed or, BP.

Behind the neck, isn't that important, as long as it's a fit similar to a factory cartridge. It will take the shape of the chamber, over a few shots.

Case heads should be at least .25+ thick. You have to be careful here, as decapping pins are only so long. My .30 case head, barely decaps. The thicker the case head, the stronger the case.

Continued:
  

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Re: Why would I pay...........................
Reply #25 - Dec 29th, 2018 at 4:03pm
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I haven't annealed my case necks but, I would recommend it, especially if your not sure of the neck fit.

You can adjust the head space by machining cases or specifying the rim size for RMC. That will keep your cases from separating. If the case can't move for or aft, it shouldn't be able to seperate.

Case necks should be NO thicker than .015. Thicker than that, will allow gas to get behind the mouth and collapse it. Smaller case should have only .010 thick necks.

Sizing turned cases, will shorten there life and depending on their thickness, can pull the neck off or separate the body. Polishing can help, in this case also.

Bob,
The inside of the case can be polished with a wood dowel, cut on the end for a piece of emery and wrapped to fit the case.

Frank
  

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Re: Why would I pay...........................
Reply #26 - Dec 29th, 2018 at 5:14pm
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Here are a couple of turned cases for a personal project with necks of 45 thous. and worked just fine. And another turned case project on the bottom with a 25-20 case next to it for comparison sake and .321 fixed project that also works fine neck is 15 thous. and non are annealed or inside polished just machined very nicely.

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Re: Why would I pay...........................
Reply #27 - Dec 29th, 2018 at 6:12pm
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That's very interesting Frank.  Thanks!

Chris.
  
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Re: Why would I pay...........................
Reply #28 - Dec 29th, 2018 at 7:39pm
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Sounds like you are on to the solution Frank.
  

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Re: Why would I pay...........................
Reply #29 - Dec 29th, 2018 at 8:03pm
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uscra112 wrote on Dec 29th, 2018 at 2:36pm:
 

Turned brass has a surface finish problem which is a bit arcane but relevant. The machining process leaves a very thin layer that is full of microfractures, ripe for crack formation. Ideally this would be removed using a fine abrasive, or better yet mitigated by superfinishing, which is a burnishing process, or by shot-peening.  Neither of the latter would be cost-efficient, and in either case a subsequent annealing would be necessary.  


Tumbling in stainless pins may work, never thought about it. 

It works very well on drawn brass that has been neck turned or had the web reduced like converting hornet cases to 25-10 centerfire.

Any thought on that?
  
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