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Long Range, Load, bullet Twist (Read 27322 times)

GrumpyBear Full Member Offline Posts: 139 Location: Western,Pa. Joined: Sep 30^th, 2017	Re: Long Range, Load, bullet Twist Reply #75 - Dec 21^st, 2018 at 8:53pm	Print Post
	frnkeore wrote on Dec 21^st, 2018 at 8:13pm: Vall, That was my first concept for a X-stick arrangement but, after reading the rules, your only allow two pieces of wood. The bolt that they allow, can be tighten, to hold the two pieces, pretty tight. Also, after reading the rules, I think one of the main reasons for the spikes, is to allow the X-sticks, to stand, on their own. They cite that a rifle should not fall when supported by the sticks or, something like that. Frank Frank some of us are using Cat Shooting Sticks, he makes several different models, could look at his pictures for ideas maybe. I have the set with the blades, and a bench set from him also. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) And they are NRA rules legal to the best of my knowledge.

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Ranch13 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 636 Location: East Central Wy. Joined: Jan 20^th, 2018	Re: Long Range, Load, bullet Twist Reply #76 - Dec 21^st, 2018 at 10:56pm	Print Post
	Chris it's not a "power factor" it's what someone has determined to be minimum weight and velocity for pit safety during long range matches ( beyond 600 yards) Midrange matches (600 and less) doesn't have the restrictions. The Whittington Center and Lodi both use the velocity/weight standard. They used to chronograph 3 rounds from each shooter the day before the nationals, weigh the rifle, and if all passed you got your shooters packet, but the last few years they haven't done that. What the shooters handbook from the nationals says is 38 cal 400 gr minimum weight at 1274 fps. 40 cal 400 gr bullet at 1255 44 cal 441 gr bullet at 1215 45 cal 500 gr at 1176 50 cal 588 gr. at 1176


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7659 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Long Range, Load, bullet Twist Reply #77 - Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 1:35am	Print Post
	Ranch13 wrote on Dec 21^st, 2018 at 10:56pm: Chris it's not a "power factor" it's what someone has determined to be minimum weight and velocity for pit safety during long range matches ( beyond 600 yards) Midrange matches (600 and less) doesn't have the restrictions. The Whittington Center and Lodi both use the velocity/weight standard. They used to chronograph 3 rounds from each shooter the day before the nationals, weigh the rifle, and if all passed you got your shooters packet, but the last few years they haven't done that. What the shooters handbook from the nationals says is 38 cal 400 gr minimum weight at 1274 fps. 40 cal 400 gr bullet at 1255 44 cal 441 gr bullet at 1215 45 cal 500 gr at 1176 50 cal 588 gr. at 1176 That seems to put me, right out of the LR game, unless I shoot my 45/70 with a 500 gr bullet. A recoil level that I'm not sure that I want to risk. It looks like the 400 gr, 40 cal, would be the least recoil but, not by much. Dave and Grumpy, thak you for the X-stick site, I kinow what to use now. Frank

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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2605 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: Long Range, Load, bullet Twist Reply #78 - Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 10:01am	Print Post
	Frank, Steve Rhoades used to shoot a .40-82 in long range. His rifle was quite heavy, close to 15 lbs. The recoil from that rifle would feel substantially less shooting a standard .45-70 load in a silhouette legal rifle. I have a bull barrel .45-110 that weighs 15 lbs. Its recoil is more pleasant than the .45-70 in my 11.5lb Meacham highwalls. Another thing. The NRA has a class called "Tollofson" and it allows rifles from 15 lbs to 25 lbs. You can tame a lot of recoil going that route. Chris.


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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2605 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: Long Range, Load, bullet Twist Reply #79 - Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 10:04am	Print Post
	Yet another thing Frank. If you want to just shoot midrange to 600 yards, you can do quite well with a .40-65 or .40-70. My .40-65 uses 62gr of Swiss 1.5 and a 400gr Money bullet. It shoots extremely well without a lot of recoil. The only issue is that it's more sensitive to the wind at 600 than the .45's. Chris.


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beltfed Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1826 Location: Central Wi Joined: Dec 20^th, 2007	Re: Long Range, Load, bullet Twist Reply #80 - Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 10:14am	Print Post
	Please note the attached Lodi Ctg bullet wt/velocity chart from this year's Am Creedmoor cup. Note esp the allowance of the "lighter" 38 cal bullet wt of 365 with commensurate increased velocity of 1375fps. I believe this change may have been originated at Whittington/Raton. A Dual Diameter/tapered bullet of 365 gr could be seated out so as to allow a larger powder charge in say the 38-50 10 or 12 twist to achieve the 1375fps. I KNOW I have achieved that and more in my 38-72 with a 380 gr bullet. With a heavy rifle, the recoil will be light... I Know that it is light in my heavy 40-65 - with 370 gr DDEPP bullet clocking 1400fps. beltfed/arnie beltfed/arnie

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Ranch13 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 636 Location: East Central Wy. Joined: Jan 20^th, 2018	Re: Long Range, Load, bullet Twist Reply #81 - Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 10:16am	Print Post
	Frank keep in mind not all ranges use that velocity standard. But having said that, as I said before I don't notice a whole lot of difference in recoil between a 40-65 , or a lighter weight 40-70 loaded with 400 gr bullets and a 45-70 loaded with 500's. As Chris points out 15 lb and heavier rifles shot off the sticks are a pleasure to shoot. I have a 45 2 7/8's with a 16 lb barrel that is a pure pleasure to shoot, but I wouldn't want to get into an offhand match with it. Also I have a borchardt chambered in the 2 7/8 that is pure pleasure to shoot, and it has a 34 inch #3 weight barrel on it, the stock design changes the recoil impulse. I also have a CPA long range in 45-90 with a 34 inch half round heavy barrel that is pleasant to shoot, but again the weight is up a bit over 13 lbs.


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beltfed Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1826 Location: Central Wi Joined: Dec 20^th, 2007	Re: Long Range, Load, bullet Twist Reply #82 - Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 10:21am	Print Post
	OH, My 4065 load is 74.5gr Swiss 1.5 under the 370 gr DDEPP or the 370 gr Elliptical Minigroove tapered bullet and both clock 1400fps over my Oehler Chrono. Again my 16 twist rifle stabilizes this bullet/load with accuracy out to Long Range beltfed/arnie


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beltfed Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1826 Location: Central Wi Joined: Dec 20^th, 2007	Re: Long Range, Load, bullet Twist Reply #83 - Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 10:36am	Print Post
	But, If I built another 40-65 cal it would have a 14 twist barrel so as to stabilize the longer heavier bullets beltfed/arnie


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art_ruggiero Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1222 Location: CT Joined: Dec 14^th, 2008	Re: Long Range, Load, bullet Twist Reply #84 - Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 11:07am	Print Post
	frank; the mercury recoil reducers work very well art


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18053 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Long Range, Load, bullet Twist Reply #85 - Dec 22^nd, 2018 at 11:14am	Print Post
	frnkeore wrote on Dec 21^st, 2018 at 8:13pm: Vall, That was my first concept for a X-stick arrangement but, after reading the rules, your only allow two pieces of wood. The bolt that they allow, can be tighten, to hold the two pieces, pretty tight. Also, after reading the rules, I think one of the main reasons for the spikes, is to allow the X-sticks, to stand, on their own. They cite that a rifle should not fall when supported by the sticks or, something like that. Frank I don't believe that rule means the sticks need to stand alone when the rifle isn't in the sticks. Nor does it mean you should be able to lay the rifle in the cross sticks and have it balance or sit there without the shooter. I think it simply means that the sticks must safely support the rifle in the approved shooting position, so the gun doesn't fall. Maybe somebody who shoots BPCR can confirm this, as it seems odd that the rule would require sticks to stand on their own?

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