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Winchester "Perfection" mold ? (Read 6939 times)

BP Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 8039 Location: Westside Joined: Aug 27^th, 2006	Re: Winchester "Perfection" mold ? Reply #15 - Dec 12^th, 2018 at 11:16pm	Print Post
	JLouis wrote on Dec 12^th, 2018 at 1:58pm: The sprue plate on a Lyman perfection has the cut off handle on the right side of the mould and the one shown has it located at the front of the mould. If that might be some help as it would be a bit challenging to modify a Lyman and relocate it. If so there would be a couple of empty holes from the old stop pin location and the old sprue plate attachment screw location. There doesn't *have* to be any extra unused holes in the mould at the sprue plate location. If WRA contracted for a mould from Ideal, WRA could have told Ideal to skip those particular steps... specifying that WRA would do their own locating, drilling, tapping and pinning of the mould to install a WRA manufactured sprue plate... which WRA was certainly capable of doing.

	There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Proud Noodlehead
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Winchester "Perfection" mold ? Reply #16 - Dec 12^th, 2018 at 11:30pm	Print Post
	BP it has absolutely nothing at all to do with what I was pointing out if you would go back and re-read what was actually being said.

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BP Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 8039 Location: Westside Joined: Aug 27^th, 2006	Re: Winchester "Perfection" mold ? Reply #17 - Dec 13^th, 2018 at 1:38am	Print Post
	JLouis wrote on Dec 12^th, 2018 at 11:30pm: BP it has absolutely nothing at all to do with what I was pointing out if you would go back and re-read what was actually being said. John, What are you trying to say here?

	There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Proud Noodlehead
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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7660 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Winchester "Perfection" mold ? Reply #18 - Dec 13^th, 2018 at 2:38am	Print Post
	This is my early Ideal mold. I think that there are 3 handle style attachments. Note the pin holes in the handle that attaches it. The other is one of my Winchester molds, it is the only style I've ever seen. The mold in this thread, looks exactly like the early handles that Ideal made, especially if it uses the pin attachment. I can't see Winchester, exactly copying the Ideal mold. Since Winchester used a similar mold block portion, on their molds, they could have made a "Perfection" on their own molds. If the mold is marked Winchester, I'd suggest that Win, either planed to sell the mold at a very low volume or that Ideal had a patent or some other legal hold on the design and they had to contract with Ideal, to be able to sell that type of mold. If Doug, still watches this forum, he could probably give us more info. Frank

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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Winchester "Perfection" mold ? Reply #19 - Dec 13^th, 2018 at 11:13am	Print Post
	The Lyman perfection had the sprue plate cut off handle on the right BP if someone modified one of Lyman's and moved it to the front as the one shown. There would be the stop pin and sprue plate attachment screw holes left showing on the top of the mould. I don't believe that to be the case with the mould shown but where Winchester preffered to have it located and that it was purchased through Winchester as marked. Lyman on the top and the OP's below it for comparison. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) JLouis

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7660 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Winchester "Perfection" mold ? Reply #20 - Dec 13^th, 2018 at 11:39am	Print Post
	There are no modifications to the mold, itself. It could still be a standard Ideal, remarked for Win. The only modification, is the sprue plate, itself. The screw location and stop pin, remain the same. Because the sprue plate has a offset handle, where Win's are centered, I think the sprue plate, itself, is Ideal and was just machined to locate the handle portion, to the front. Frank

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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18061 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Winchester "Perfection" mold ? Reply #21 - Dec 13^th, 2018 at 11:52am	Print Post
	Since the mold has Winchester markings, I doubt someone put those markings on later. And it has all the features and design of an Ideal mold, other than the direction of the sprue plate knockoff spur. I think Frank is likely correct that it was made for Winchester by Ideal. Most likely the issues of royalties, patents, etc., would be nullified if Winchester simply had Ideal build them a Perfection mold with the plate spur pointing a different direction. Pretty cool mold, and I'm betting pretty darn rare too.

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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Winchester "Perfection" mold ? Reply #22 - Dec 13^th, 2018 at 12:22pm	Print Post
	I believe you are indeed correct Vall and a pretty cool, interesting, unique and a real nice find. JLouis

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18061 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Winchester "Perfection" mold ? Reply #23 - Dec 13^th, 2018 at 12:54pm	Print Post
	JLouis wrote on Dec 13^th, 2018 at 12:22pm: I believe you are indeed correct Vall and a pretty cool, interesting, unique and a real nice find. JLouis Well I think Frank deserves the credit for being "correct", not me.

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