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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Cheap Case Induction Annealer Experiment (Read 12190 times)
texasmac
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Re: Cheap Case Induction Annealer Experiment
Reply #15 - Dec 10th, 2018 at 7:56pm
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[quote There are people who work in 110,000 volt transmission lines hot.  It is just a matter of isolating the high voltage potential and not making a circuit to another phase or ground. [/quote]

Along those same lines, after graduating from collage with a background in lasers, electronics & optics, my 1st job was working for Lawrence Livermore National Labs in Livermore CA. in the Laser Fusion Program, designing & building optics & electronic diagnostic equipment. Around the time I was leaving for another job there was a high voltage accident that killed a guy.

In order to properly measure some of the high energy particles generated by laser fusion a large platform with diagnostic equipment was isolated and elevated to 10's of thousands of volts above ground (don't remember how much).  Apparently the technician forgot & stepped off the platform to a grounded surface while still holding on to the platform, or he may have slipped and tried to catch himself.  In any case, since his body now served as a conductor to ground the discharge blew a large hole out the bottom of his foot and relatively thin-sole shoe.  Needless to say it killed him.

Wayne
« Last Edit: Dec 10th, 2018 at 11:25pm by texasmac »  

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texasmac
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Re: Cheap Case Induction Annealer Experiment
Reply #16 - Dec 10th, 2018 at 8:06pm
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[quote 
Probably the easiest way to make the device in question work would be to make a induction coil around a piece of ferrous metal tubing that fits the case mouth relatively closely.  Design it with maybe 400 hz or higher frequency.  That will put some heat on it  Grin   
[/quote]

I mentioned earlier that I plan to modify the experiment.  Assuming I can locate a crucible that will fit inside the 2" diameter coil, the modification will either use a steel rod slightly smaller than the case neck or a steel tube with the ID slightly larger than the case neck in an attempt to use heat transfer to anneal the necks.  I have a couple of crucibles on order which are slightly larger in diameter so may have to enlarge the coil slightly - we'll see.

BTW, I am curious as to what frequency the coil is operating at & also plan to connect up an oscilloscope to check it out.

Wayne
  

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Re: Cheap Case Induction Annealer Experiment
Reply #17 - Dec 10th, 2018 at 9:02pm
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Can you build one out of this?
Not inductive, but cheap.
Aaron
« Last Edit: Dec 10th, 2018 at 9:08pm by Rebel »  

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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Cheap Case Induction Annealer Experiment
Reply #18 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 1:41am
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Wayne, Doesn't the coil work on 24 to 48 VDC?
  

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texasmac
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Re: Cheap Case Induction Annealer Experiment
Reply #19 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:13am
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Schuetzenmiester wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 1:41am:
Wayne, Doesn't the coil work on 24 to 48 VDC?


The one I purchased is rated for 12v to 36v.
Wayne

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Re: Cheap Case Induction Annealer Experiment
Reply #20 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 11:32am
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Schuetzenmiester wrote on Dec 10th, 2018 at 7:34pm:
Annealing coils of tubing is one thing, a small case neck is a whole 'nother ball game  Cheesy  The biggest issue will be Ohm's Law working against you using a relatively heavy material over a short distance. You will have no literally no resistance and no way to generate impedance in the material; therefore, when the power from the capacitor or a circuit enters the case mouth on opposite sides you have a dead short.  It will be very difficult to find any happy medium between meltdown and exhausting your power supply without making any noticeable heat.  

Probably the easiest way to make the device in question work would be to make a induction coil around a piece of ferrous metal tubing that fits the case mouth relatively closely.  Design it with maybe 400 hz or higher frequency.  That will put some heat on it  Grin   


On passing around your garbage can lid capacitor parts, everything is a matter of references in electrical power.  As long as they are isolated, the charge will remain.  We used to work 480 volts hot all the time early in my career.   After a few people publicized their research on 480 volts ionizing the atmosphere in short circuit situations, everyone decided that might not be such a good idea anymore  Huh. Working 120/208/240 volt circuits hot isn't a big deal unless you get grounded. If you are nervous and your hands get wet and sweaty, the risk goes up exponentially  Shocked  There are people who work in 110,000 volt transmission lines hot.  It is just a matter of isolating the high voltage potential and not making a circuit to another phase or ground.


I'm sure most have seen this but I get a kick out it... makes light of what we have going on here.
G

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Re: Cheap Case Induction Annealer Experiment
Reply #21 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 4:38pm
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When I was a 1st year apprentice I drew a static arc about an inch long off a 13,800 volt line.  I decide I didn't like that stuff  Shocked

Wayne, Odd that doesn't say AC or DC, but since it looks like they control the power by varying the voltage, it must be AC.
  

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Re: Cheap Case Induction Annealer Experiment
Reply #22 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 5:24pm
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Schuetzenmiester wrote on Dec 11th, 2018 at 4:38pm:
When I was a 1st year apprentice I drew a static arc about an inch long off a 13,800 volt line.  I decide I didn't like that stuff  Shocked

Wayne, Odd that doesn't say AC or DC, but since it looks like they control the power by varying the voltage, it must be AC.


As an apprentice I was taken into the power room for an electric arc furnace at the steel foundry where I worked. The journeyman told me to grab a 4 ft. fluorescent lamp as we left the shop. I asked why not two, since I usually replaced them in pairs? He assured me I'd only need one.
We got to the electrical vault behind the furnace and swung the door open. He told me to hold the lamp in the middle and out at arm's length. We walked into the room and as we did the lamp began to glow like it was turned on! It was a 50,000 v.a.c. secondary, and I could feel the hair on my arms and head begin to stand up! Not a good feeling at all.
We backed out, and he turned to me and said, "Don't ever enter this room without a lamp in your hand if you're here to work. If the lamp glows, back out and make sure the power is off before you work in there!"
Even after locking out the power, we still used the fluorescent lamp trick to be sure it was dead before we started working on equipment in there.
  

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texasmac
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Re: Cheap Case Induction Annealer Experiment
Reply #23 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 5:45pm
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[quote Wayne, Odd that doesn't say AC or DC, but since it looks like they control the power by varying the voltage, it must be AC. [/quote]

If you're referring to the power supply for the ZVS induction heater, it's definitely 12 to 36v DC & requires a switch between the supply & the heater electronics to properly start although it's not mentioned, & no instructions came with the unit.  The switch or another method to quickly apply full power to the unit kickstarts the flyback circuitry to oscilate & provide high frequency power to the coil.  Without the switch the SCR circuitry can lock up and burn up.  This is discussed in the article.

Wayne
  

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Re: Cheap Case Induction Annealer Experiment
Reply #24 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 7:19pm
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I read the article about the switch and the burn out.. Didn 't recall the DC.  Must be getting oldtimers  Cry 

Getting it to work with a non critical timing to anneal cases would be cool.  Seems like I always got them too hot too quick with a propane torch.
  

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Re: Cheap Case Induction Annealer Experiment
Reply #25 - Dec 11th, 2018 at 8:13pm
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Rebel:       You absolutely can build a case annealer for a Weller soldering gun.  Caliber specific.  Hardest part is finding nuts.  Any heavy copper wire will do.
  
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Re: Cheap Case Induction Annealer Experiment
Reply #26 - Dec 12th, 2018 at 4:06am
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Quote:
Rebel:       You absolutely can build a case annealer for a Weller soldering gun.  Caliber specific.  Hardest part is finding nuts.  Any heavy copper wire will do.

Thanks Andy.  I always assumed a soldering iron had some kind of high resistance heating element.  Is # 12 or 10 big enough?
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Cheap Case Induction Annealer Experiment
Reply #27 - Dec 12th, 2018 at 10:54am
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Using my battery drill motor, and my Mapp gas torch has always worked extremely well, and very fast. I just sit the lit torch on the bench and with a rod in my drill motor I slip a case over it and spin it in the flame for a couple seconds. Then tip the drill to drop them in water and start again. I can do hundreds in very short time with lights turned low so I see the case color better.
  

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Re: Cheap Case Induction Annealer Experiment
Reply #28 - Dec 12th, 2018 at 11:54am
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Andy, what gun are you using? the larger 8250 or do the smaller ones work OK?
Greg
  

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Re: Cheap Case Induction Annealer Experiment
Reply #29 - Dec 12th, 2018 at 8:01pm
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Should know wire sizes but forget most of that. Anyway wire is .076 od, 3 turns and the gun is an 8620A.  Not sure that anything smaller would work.  Its been a while but I remember it as being a bit slow.  Since you are judging by color (or time) bit slow might be good.
        Colored case necks very similar to factory.
If one was serious a little experimentation with wire size and # of turns might boost performance.
     One consideration is how long can one run a Weller?  Its fine for smaller case lots.
  
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